Apparently I was not the only person having problems with TIAA-Cref this year. CNN is reporting that thousands of customers had problems with their scheduled transfers and with accessing their accounts online.
One customer told the newspaper he was “pretty angry” after the computer glitch prevented him from making changes to his portfolio, although TIAA-CREF said his trade would be backdated.
When I contacted the company to report my missing contribution, the customer service representative was very helpful and assured me the account would be adjusted. I had complete confidence, and when I checked my account yesterday, the deposit had been made and backdated.
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{ 261 comments… read them below or add one }
I am having major problems with TIAA CREF. If you have money invested get it out right away. I am trying to get my mutual funds out now and of course I am not getting any response. The government needs to go after this outfit immediately.
Can you be more specific about your problems, Jmd? My problem was quickly resolved.
We are 7 weeks into trying to get a disbursement out of one or our accounts with TIAA/CREF. Do you have any suggestions that worked to get resolution from them? You would think in the 6 months since CNN reported about customer dissatisfction TIAA-CREF would have solved their problems…
I made sure my paperwork was perfect originally. After TIAA-Cref didn’t hold up their end of the agreement, I called every week about the issue and was always polits. I don’t think it came down to human error, per se. Their systems for transfers were backed up so much. It is still human error by the fact that no one should have ever let the system get in such a condition.
I have been having a problem with TC for almost 2 months. I left my previous employer after a only having 3 months paid in, have been trying to get ahold of those funds for two months. They have either not sent, or sent the wrong paperwork. Once I got the correct paperwork the fax was lost. I was given the incorrect info on filling it out. Now they have had the correct paperwork and a check was suppose to have been mailed on a week ago, it still has not arrived.
TIAA/Cref has still not corrected errors to my account since June. I have now filed a complaint with the SEC as I just keep getting the run around from TIAA/CREF. I was told by one employee that the transaction errors that the software made are actually my fault! Well I know one thing for sure, I requested in writing, that the funds from my previous employer be transfered to Vanguard in JUne and to date the transfer is still incomplete.
I have been locked out of my main TIAA-CREF account since June 2006, and cannot make any asset transfer within the account. They keep telling me the problem will be “investigated.” Nothing ever happens. I have filed a complaint with the SEC.
I had and still have problems with scheduled transfers and with accessing my account online for many weeks now. I suggest everyone fax their transfer request like i have been doing. Still my account isn’t updated online but they do show that I have made transfer requests. The fax number I use is 1-800-914-8922. Can anyone tell me how to contact the SEC?
I have been having problems with TIAA Cref since July 2006 with a simple request of changing my loan to a montly billing. All the customer reps say it will be done, yet each month it is not, and now I am getting the runaround. The last person I talked with in customer resolutions tells me that they are so backed up it takes a couple of months. Now it has been almost 6 months! I believe this is unacceptable behavior. Does anyone else have this problem?
My two nieces have separate TIAA-CREF mutual fund accounts. In early December I mailed Christmas investments to their accounts using the PO box shown in the TIAA CREFF mutual fund Q & A under “where to mail fund investments.” Two weeks later, my check came back to me from the post office, “no such address.” When I contacted TIAA CREF by telephone the customer rep advised me the PO Box shown on the website is not correct. It was changed over a year ago. TIAA CREF needs to get its act together
I am having major problems with deposits made to my TIAA-CREF accounts – thishas now been for several months. I have tried getting this fixed without success. My impression is that TIAA-CREF is completely un-responsive. I have three questions:
a) How widespread are the current problems with TIAA-CREFF. Am I alone ?
b) Can anyone recommend a method that will help. I should note that after failing to get any action taken (despite being toild many times that my problem was being “escalated”) I have written to the board of trustees and I have filed formal complaints with NASD & SEC, These actions led to a phone call (the first time that I have been called by TIAA-CREF) – I was told again that “my problem” was being “escalated” again, Nothing has happened. What should I do now.
c) TIAA-CREF acts as if they have no legal liability – is this true ?
Comments and advice would be appreciated.
Roger
Reading the comments and problems cited above gives me very little solace and very serious concerns. My problem is somewhat different. In December of 2001 I asked for a transfer of funds from one of my accounts into another. While funds were moved, the WRONG funds were moved but my quarterly statements indicated that everything was exactly as I had intended it to be. Then, in December of 2005 (yes, four years later) I received a phone call indicating that they discovered an error in a “routine audit” and corrected it by taking back 25% of my total accumulations! What? They do “routine audits” every four years? The world’s largest retirement program? I’ve been in touch with the CEO who passed my inquiry on to a senior “team manager” who wrote me last October assuring me another “senior manager” would be in touch with me shortly. Well, here we are … 1/20/2007 … and no further contact. I do believe they have liability for their error … an error they admit THEY made … and that liability is to restore my account’s balance to what it would presently be had the error been reflected in the quarterly statements in which event it would have been reversed ~ 3/31/2002. Barton
I have had major problems with TIAA-CREF. I requested an electronic withdrawal to be paid to my bank checking account from a retirement account December 5th… for $6,315 it has yet to be sent to my bank by today, January 25th, 2007. I have called daily for the past two weeks and was assured each time that it would receive rush action. Yesterday, I was assured that it would go out yesterday; yet today, it has not been sent and I could obtain no assurance as to the ‘date’ that it would be sent. So much for timely response to requests. Overall, I have talked with more than 10 TIAA-CREF personnel and their documentation includes most of the interactions, including the emails and letters that remain unanswered.
Whatever the problems are, they appear to be serious and raise many serious questions, including deception and mismanagement.
T-C must have very powerful lobbyists. In May ‘05 they unilaterally and suddenly dropped service to internationally based U.S. institutions, including mine, citing post-911 difficulties “…for companies like ours to service the clients abroad while maintaining the highest level of service for the majority of our clients in the United States.” [You're supposed to laugh.]
On our end, that meant contributions directed to a new provider while we are held (despite legal challenges) to the pre-existing “contract” restrictions that applied when we had an intact plan, but minus the benefits of same.
What I’m seeing here shows that you stateside folks are getting the same “highest level of service” that we’ve come to expect: nice helpful folks on the phone but little action (especially when trying to move money *out*). Phone reps contradict each other with impunity, and the only record is on their end. Worst case for me was last year when I almost lost a home I was buying. Eventually I got my loan and an apology for the “misinformation” I’d received, but only with heavyweight employer intervention. The saga continues.
TIAA-CREF is three months behind in crediting voluntary contributions to my 403(b) plan made through payroll deductions by my employer, a non-profit with about 80 employees. Most of our employees are in the same position, but it is us older ones, who are maxing out our voluntary contributions, who are experiencing the disappearance of thousands of dollars each. TIAA-CREF personnel are polite but have initiated three separate “research requests” with absolutely no result. Our employer is transmitting the funds and supporting documentation properly and on time and we can prove that. This is a gross breach of a contractual and fiduciary responsibility. I am preparinag to pursue a complaint to whatever regulatory authorities have jurisdiction on such matters and would welcome any knowledge or advice. I also will not hesitate to file suit if that is what it takes to get their attention. If you were depositing cash in a bank account, and the bank took the cash but then never credited your account, wouldn’t you be hopping mad, too?
My problems have now (finally) been fixed – 7 months after the problems ocurred (see #11 above).
My impression is that most of the actions I took were completely ineffective, including numerous phone calls to customer relations and complaints filed with NASD & SEC. In retrospect, the only action that resulted in my problem being fixed (although still very slowly) was sending a complaint to the Board of Trustee. There is a link on the TIAA-CREF web-page. I recommend that anyone else with TIAA-CREF problems should do this.
I hope that this is helpful.
Roger
I just discovered the comments relating to TIAA-CREF. I feel somewhat better knowing that I am not alone. I processed paperwork in Feb. 2006 to start RMD from my 403(b) in Dec. of 06. When MRD did not appear I started calling. It took 5 weeks to finally get almost the correct amount. Part of RMD was in wrong year. I spent almost 50 hours attempting to get my money. Do we have grounds for a class action suit? jim
My comment is much like number 17 by Jim, a request for a RMD that has required numerous phone calls and e-mail and is still not resolved.
The comments on this Web site must reflect just a tiny percentage of the thousands who are receiving poor service.
The University of Minnesota has dropped TIAA-CREF from its approved TDA programs because of poor customer service. TIAA-CREF should stop spending so much on advertising and use these resources to fix their problems
Morgan
I have requested a loan for the second time over a few months to help my parents out. The first time it took almost 2 1/2 months to process the paperwork – they said mine was escalated.. I am not approaching 1 month wait on this one – they did send a payment but it did not match either loan request I submitted. I requested the President or Director (what they are called) to call me with a date of when I would be getting my funds…. no one has called. Who do I complain to?
My wife has been unable to start her annuity payments. We have been lied to repeatedly. There has been NO ACTION on her duly-submitted paperwork.
This is very, very serious for us and probably for thousands of others. What, if anything, can be done?
TIAA-CREF continues to be shamelessly unresponsive to requests for service. In October 2006 I completed and forwarded to them forms required for the minimum required distributions from my retirement accounts. The organization began the distribution from some of my accounts, but with no explanation failed to begin the distribution from others. In March of this year I submitted a second form, but with no result or explanation. In response to an e-mail a representative sent some vague information about how much I should receive from these accounts. A telephone representative told me there were errors with the placement of account numbers and guided me through the completion of two more forms.
Whether there were errors or not the intent of my submission in 2006 was perfectly clear, and a truly responsive organization would have worked through the errors with me. An organization with normal consideration would have quickly informed me of the errors and instructed me how to rectify them. I can only conclude that TIAA-CREF is not very considerate.
I’ve had it with TIAA-CREF. I don’t trust them with my money, and neither should you. In a family emergency two weeks ago, I contacted them about a “distribution on employee contract” (my own voluntarily-contributed portion of my aggressive, i.e., liquid, allocations). I was put through an absolute nightmare which is ongoing as I type this. I was told flat out that my entire employee portion was now in a TIAA Traditional plan and thus I could not withdraw funds other than 10% each year for 10 years. This literally floored me, I had never signed up for a traditional account!!! After finally getting the form for at least a 10% distribution, I discovered another coworker was also going through the same nightmare. I had my employer pull my record and, indeed, quite clearly when the plan was set up I had chosen an aggressive portfolio and NOT a TIAA Traditional account. My employer contacted TIAA-CREF who offered no apology but merely a “we will make the adjustments necessary and the employee will now have to fill out an ED48 withdrawal form.” This, all the while they now have a form requesting money from a “traditional” account. What a mess. I am presuming they will make the required adjustments and make this right very swiftly as this entire situation is under close watch by my employer and the plan representative from TIAA-CREF to assure fast turnaround due to hardship (family emergency). Time will tell. I will, however, clearly state here that it is my personal opinion that TIAA-CREF is entirely dysfunctional as a company. I was given different information each time I called daily over a two-week period, with some of the representatives expressing an extreme lack of interest in following through to assure my questions were answered. Now that I am aware that this is happening with other employees where I work as well, i.e., their liquid aggressive portfolios becoming a “traditional” account magically overnight, I am certain that thousands throughout the country are having their own accounts misadjusted and their investments utilized in a completely irresponsible manner and they are not yet aware…until they too have a family emergency and need money quick and are told “your account is TIAA Traditional” when they had signed up for an aggressive non-traditional portfolio!!
I am having major problems with TIAA. My automatic deductions have been sent to TIAA according to my payroll office, but TIAA has not posted any contributions that have been sent in on my account since 11/06!!!! It has been 6 months of my trying to get this corrected and updated. I have called and emailed countess TIAA reps. I’m told that someone is researching this. No one can even tell me what my current balance is at this time. This is unbelieveable. When you call, they act like you are the only one with this issue and they don’t let on that others are going through the same nightmare!!
I was locked out of my TIAA-CREF account for 6 months. There is an easy solution: file a formal complaint with the SEC. That got my problem solved. If you just complain to TIAA they will tell you they are “investigating� the problem, but will do nothing. It is amazing how much incompetence this company can display without consequences.
I’m another victim. T-C has lost track of my employer contributions every month since October 06. Calling their customer service is a complete waste of time. Go to http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml to see how to file a complaint with the SEC. That’s the only way to get a response, but even when they fix one month’s screw-up and assure the SEC everything is fine and dandy, they screw up the next month’s contribution and you have to do it again. This company is criminally incompetent. Employers owe a duty to their employees to stop using this company. Their advertising is blatantly false and the SEC should close them down or turn the assets over to a competent honest receiver.
TIAA-CREF made a big mess of my 403(b) contribution!!!
I have my 403(b) account with TIAA-CREF since 08/01/2006.
On 04/13/2007, TIAA-CREF sent me a letter mentioned that my account got switch from a RA account to a GSRA account. The letter cached my attention, so I started
looking into my account activity. The more I compared the number among various statements and the website information, the more confused I was. Finally I
realized TIAA-CREF made a whole mess of my contribution and provided inaccurate financial statement. I made so many calls and more than a month passed, there is no correction made to my 403(b) account, and there is big difference between the
contribution from my payroll statement, and the TIAA-CREF statement:
1. In year 2006, TIAA-CREF’s statement shows only half of my contribution, without any indication of my employer’s match.
2. My employer made consistent remittance to TIAA-CREF every month. But TIAA_CREF’s statement show no balance increase from 12/30/06 to 3/31/07.
3. There is big difference between 03/31/07 to current. From 03/31/07 to current, my balance jump 3 times of my previous quarter. There is no explanation why there is a big jump all of a sudden. The life-to-Date contribution has my employer total contribution correct (but nowhere else I can see the detail), but
employee life-to-date contribution is less than my total contribution. There is no track of all my contribution either.
I requested the investigation for over a month. So far there is no progress at all. Even the service representative can immediately spot the problem from their screen. No one in TIAA-CREF really looked at the mess they created. So I am looking for any suggestion and push to TIAA-CREF. Plus, I would like to see if there is any
legal liability that TIAA-CREF can not keep track of customer’s financial transaction. Since my money didn’t get in the account on time, how do I recover
the lost of my investment due to TIAA-CREF’s mistake?
TIAA CREF has serious customer service problems and the problems detailed on this page are quite typical. Their call center operators are completely ill-equipped to deal with most customer problems. They have been going through a major system conversion for the last several years, and almost all problems are blamed on technical glitches beyond their control. It’s frustrating for those of us who have depended on TIAA CREF and don’t have other options.
I have been a TIAA-CREF participant since 1975. Now in the distribution phase, I have had an absurd level of difficulty in getting money out of CREF accounts. I began the process in August 2006 and finally resolved the last problem in May of 2007. Those planning on retiring had better (1) start the process early, (2) have six months or more of reserve funds to live on during delays, (3) have their employer’s benefits people in support, (4) have lots of patience.
TIAA-CREF used to be run for the benefit of its participants. Now, I am convinced it is being run for the benefit of management, much like a bank. I have been getting periodic payments from a CREF account now for about six months. I have noticed that electronic funds transfers are almost always issued near a weekend even if they have to be delayed several days to do so. The only time a transfer was initiated on the first of a month was when that occurred on a Friday (June 2007). Now, why do you suppose that is? Could it be that TIAA-CREF wants the float even though this approach costs its participants? To me, the interest loss is small, but in aggregate I’d bet the amount is pretty large.
Something unhealthy has happened to the way TIAA-CREF is run that goes beyond the fiasco with the computer system upgrade. If I were starting over, I would go with Vanguard, Fidelity, or similar if available and stay away from TIAA-CREF.
I’ve also had problems with TC, though different than those stated above.
Mine centers around trying to give them money for my roth.
Was told to have everything postmarked by 4/17, and I did. I’ve had to ontinually follow-up to tyr and get them to take the contribution. I’ve been told many things, including the fact that it would be done that day (never was) and then a week later that I couldn’t contribute because I don’t have a Roth (I do, and have been contributing for several years). Now, after nearly 8 weeks of runaround, I get a letter stating that they are no longer accepting 2006 contributions!?!?!
I am a reporter with eWeek magazine and have covered the issues at TIAA-CREF in depth. I was under the impression that many of the company’s systems upgrade issues were resolved, but looking at these posts that doesn’t seem to be the case.
If, as of June 2007, you are still having issues with TIAA-CREF and are willing to speak to the press, please contact me, either via email or by phone. I can be reached at renee_ferguson@ziffdavis.com, or 518.580.8515.
This will be the 3RD straight year that i have not recieved my Annual Payout from my Annuity at TIAA-CREF on time. The payment is supposed to be Directly Deposited into my Bank Account on May 1. I have to make phone Calls to Customer Service Staff including Supervisors who tell me Basicly anything from where Very Sorry this happended again, we are having Trouble Understanding the Rules of your plan, and we will send you Different Paperwork Etc. So far this year, I have sent 2 Sets of paperwork, made 6 Phone Calls, and still have not recieved my Annual Payout as of this date. I resigned my position at Lake forest College in 2007.
Similar story here. After paying in for over 11 years I got laid off. I have a new job starting in August but needed some funds to pay off some bills. I requested a withdrawal over 4 weeks ago and every week I’ve been told the money will be transferred to my account by Friday. It hasn’t happened yet. I’ve also been promised every week that a supervisor will call me. This also has not happened. At this point my bills are late and I can’t get any satisfaction. I have sent an email to the trustees, filed with SEC, and contacted the reporter above as of today.
I filed the paperwork for my annuity payouts at the end of March, asking for an end of June beginning for my payments. I had a new campus representative help me fill out my paperwork, and he was so nervous and made so many mistakes, I pulled out my CREF contributions and only annuitiezed my TIAA money.
My first payment was deposited on the 18th of this month and was 1/3 rd of what I had been told I would receive. I have called almost every day since. At first they could not find the rest of my contributions so they could not tell me what my payout would be. When they did find the other money, I was assured that contract was in “processing” and if I called back on Thursday, they could tell me what I would be receiving. Today (Thursday) they still couldn’t tell me what I would be getting; they only have my balance as of 12/31/06 posted, although I’ve made contributions in January, February, March, April, May, and June. Every time I call I get someone new and have to go through the same story, and wait on hold for anywhere from 25 to 45 minutes. I am filing a complaint with the SEC and telling my co-workers to pull their money out of TIAA as quickly as possible.
I have to add my voice to those complaining about poor service.
I would suggest that anyone who can get out of TIAA-CREF do so.
I have been going back and forth for 4 months now trying to get my traditional IRA and previous employer’s 403b funds transferred to my current employer’s plan.
TIAA-CREF follow through and delays have been ridiculous. Now, they are refusing to fill out the form requested by my current employer’s plan. TC tells me they are not authorized to sign the form, which simply states that the funds came from a tax deferred employer plan.
I have filed a complaint with the NASD. We will see what happens.
As you can see, I am a former employee having worked there for many years. Most importantly I am also a customer as TIAA employees use the same products that are offered to customers. Having worked there for so long, my assets are substantial. I have also experienced poor service and have been given wrong information. Unlike the general populace, I can get access to more senior level consultants to correct the problems but even then it takes far too long.
Fort-two percent of the employees have been there two years or less. Morale is extremely poor. It is no wonder that service is poor. Don’t blame the employees. When the current CEO came on board several years ago, there was a need for change and improvement. He seemingly had a plan. However, the execution has been dreadful. Attempts to correct the initial problems have made the situation worse. Decisions have been made by individuals who didn’t understand the business, most notably the CIO and head of HR. Both individual and institutional customers are pulling out their assets. Those of us who can’t are very worried about the future. It is astounding that the Boards of Trustees have let this continue.
As a follow-up to the comments in #34: When the current CEO came in, TIAA-CREF had multiple computer systems throughout the divisions, most of which could not “talk” to one another. With the new CEO, systems were ripped out and thrown away, as were most of the IT people who knew what really had to be done. [One, a good friend of mine, dropped dead from the pressures he and his staff were under.]
On vacation last December, I happened to talk to someone I didn’t know, who – it turns out – is from an outside firm which has been brought in to help correct all of the systems problems. He’d been there [if I remember correctly] at least 6 months. And had no idea how long it’s going to take to fix the situation.
When I retire in a year or two, I intend to go to an IRA I have with another company and spread the money over three or four years. By then TIAA-CREF might have it’s problems solved.
Oh, those systems that didn’t talk to one another? Well, the staff members in the various divisions could, and they could work together to get you your money and fix any problems you might have. Those staff members have now, for the most part, been thrown in together so that everyone is expected to know how to do anything and everything. Kind of like calling the plumber if you have a toothache. Too many very qualified people have been fired or have quit. Good luck!
I have also been a participant for quite a while. As a former employee I can tell you with a background of knowledge that service is very poor and employee morale is very low. Current management is failing. I suggest that you do as others have done. Contact the Board of Trustees and vote on the Exec Comp plan. If you go to the website you will see information about this. It is time for a change.
It took about a year to do a simple change of beneficiary request with TIAA-CREF.
During that time I called numerous times, responded as requested with letters and documentation (including both registered and overnight letters), and although I was assured that they had all the information they needed, when I would later check back I would find that nothing had changed.
I was never notified at any point that there was a problem, nor did I receive a reply from any of my correspondence.
Finally, I got a call from an executive with a promise that it would be taken care of…and eventually (after more forms and telephone calls)it was.
After all this I was concerned about the fate of my retirement funds, so I have now started to withdraw my money.
Was this article written?
I worked for the organization for about 8 years in the capacity of a senior consulting rep. It amazes me to see that the problems persist after having left about a year ago.
I will be quite candid about the scope of the problems – management has seen to it that, if an employee is honest to participants about the problems, they are soon pressured to leave. I speak from direct experience. Employees work in fear that a loss of their position is likely if they don’t tell lies.
Management has no credibility. The CEO has seen to it that only those employees who remain must cower to his directions to survive. They may be a giant in the industry, but their problems are simply not being addressed by management.
It looks like changes are afoot at TIAA-CREF. The Chief Technology Officer has been forced out. Another EVP responsible for Customer Services has announced her retirement. The word on the street is that more changes are coming. Perhaps the Board of Trustees is now willing to agree that major mistakes and poor decisions have been made by senior management including the CEO and HR head.
The article has been published. The main one is http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2172289,00.asp and one about sunguard is http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2172465,00.asp and lastly TIAA-CREF’s response http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2172530,00.asp
Does anyone have advice on selection of a legal firm to sue TIAA/CREF for damages? They incorrectly placed a loan of mine in default, wiping out thousands in retirement savings and potentially costing me thousands in taxes. I have attempted to get them to correct this but they are useless.
Hi, I am wondering if you ever found a legal firm to sue TIAA-CREF? If so would appreciate your input and level of satisfaction.
Thanks,
Yan
I cannot remember the last time I was able to smoothly execute a transaction with TIAA/CREF. Today, I called to find out what was happening to a request for withdrawal from a money market account, faxed to them 7 days ago. They informed me that the request was declined because (get a load of this!) my spouse’s notarized authorization to withdraw the funds was signed the day before I had signed the form. First of all, I cannot find, on the form, specific instructions regarding dates of signatures, and that rule seems incredibly silly to me. Second, no one felt an obligation to call me (when I had specifically requested to be called if there was a question about the request) to inform me that the request was declined.
This is only one among several similar issues I have had with TIAA/CREF over the past 2 – 3 years. Like other contributors to this blog, I am so angry that I am ready to sue that organization if I have a chance to do so. And like others, I am planning to move my funds to another fund manager. Whatever changes were announced or expected earlier this year are simply not happening.
Greetings,
Everyone who has left a comment on this site should file a complaint with the SEC. After a while, it doesn’t matter how powerful their lobbyists might be. TIAA CREF will be sending them to DC to do damage control instead of figuring out new ways to screw us out of our money.
I am also writing a letter to the House Committee on Financial Services.
I knew that there was no way I could be the only person to whom this is happening. Next, I am going to be making calls to business reporters I know who may not be familiar with how the investment firm with a conscience is sticking it to its clients.
Go to the SEC website and file a complaint. Then send a letter to the House Committee on Financial Services. The more we make noise in the right place, the less room the folks at CREF will have to hide.
I just sent the following letter to a financial columnist at the Washington Post. Feel free to use the text to help spread your story:
TIAA-CREF won’t release my money and the money of many others
As a reader of your column and someone who feels that you are
genuinely concerned about the financial well-being of the public, I
wanted to bring the following information to your attention.
I have been trying for more than an month to cash out of an account I
have with TIAA-CREF. I was unemployed for a while and desperately
need this money to make my mortgage payment (which I locked in at
around 6.25%). However, the folks at CREF have been giving me the run
around the entire time, and upon doing a Google search, I found out
that my problem is insignificant compared to what others have been
forced to endure at the hands of this company. You can see some of
the stories here. I am sure you will notice how similar they are:
http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2006/01/11/problems-with-tiaa-cref/#comment-123625
If you would like to hear more about my story, please feel free to
contact me at XXX.XXX.XXXX.
TIAA-CREF claims to be the in the businesses of “financial services
for the greater good.” But based on the stories being told on this
website, it looks like they are doing considerably more harm than
good. And, I suspect this is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
I started a new 403(b) account with TIAA-CREF earlier this year after starting with a new employer simply because my old employer used TIAA-CREF. Within three months, I realized things were very wrong (for many of the same reasons noted by others here–missing contributions, misallocated funds, incredibly incompetent customer service) and opened a new 403b with Vanguard. It took me three more months to get my money wrested from TIAA-CREF’s grubby fingers and into my Vanguard account. but I am out of there.
Looking at this blog, it is clear that the problems are systemic. For more evidence, check out the below recent article, and get out if you can.
link
Retirement fund a poor education
November 30, 2007
Dear Mr. Berko: Last year I retired from teaching at the City College of New York and have a large sum of money in a 403(b) with Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association-College Retirement Equities Fund (TIAA-CREF) the long-term performance of which has been about 4.6 percent, which is awful. I’ve been taking distributions and the TIAA-CREF clerks are dumber than the Burger King people you write about.
I’ve made over 20 phone calls this year and those clerks continue to deduct excessive withholdings from my checks, include service charges of which I know nothing, send checks that are short by hundreds of dollars and it just goes on and on and on.
How can I get out of this lousy 403(b) before I have a heart attack?
The other concern is my wife, who also teaches and has a TIAA-CREF 403(b). She’s 12 years younger and the performance of her plan is terrible compared to the plans of some of our friends who are in private industry. Is there any way to cancel her 403(b) with TIAA-CREF and move it to a better venue?
And can you tell me and at least a dozen other professors who are similarly disgusted why TIAA-CREF has performed so poorly compared to other plans and why they are having so much difficulty issuing checks to others and me.
S.B. Syracuse, N.Y. Dear S.B.: TIAA-CREF (TC) does poorly because they have a captive and trusting clientele so there’s no incentive to hire good people to manage your money. And because the TC administration has investors by the kidneys there’s no incentive to pay for competent clerical personnel. Your complaints about TC’s clerical staff and accounting nightmares are common. I’ve received hundreds of letters from pensioners and investors who have been denied access to their accounts.
TC is a $500 billion pension fund (they also peddle Individual Retirement Accounts, high-commission low-yield annuities, costly Simplified Employee Pension IRAs, expensive life insurance, and Roth IRAs, etc.) that has insinuated itself, like tapeworms into 15,000 colleges, schools, research centers and nonprofit institutions.
TIAA-CREF has some of the poorest long-term investment results in the nation. TC only has eight mutual funds with 10-year records: its growth fund has a 10-year performance record of 3.6 percent, its balanced fund has a 6.8 percent 10-year annual return while its bond fund’s 10-year average return is 5.6 percent and its best-performing funds, a real estate fund, has a 9.8 percent 10-year return.
TC’s other four funds have 10-year annual returns of less than 7 percent. Well those 10-year returns don’t butter my bagel or blow my whistle. And those returns are before annual 1 percent management fees paid by many TC 403(b) plans. But what does a teacher know about returns?
However, if you’re a teacher you should know that TIAA-CREF’s retirement annuity has a sizzling 5.9 percent 10-year return. Well pass the hoecake, hominy stew and sassafras tea, my two dogs Catfish and Cornbread can do better than 5.9 percent wearing blindfolds and earplugs.
TC has taken on 15 or so new funds with limited two- and five-year performance records, which are insulting to knowledgeable investors. As you know, long-term past performance is critical in selecting mutual funds. And because I always examine a fund’s 10- to 20-year record, the performance of the funds recommended in this column make those TC funds smell like swamp mud.
However, TC believes its clients are dumber than a bag of bowling shoes because they expect you folks to select funds with limited performance records to serve you for the best of your financial life. That’s pure unbridled arrogance and unacceptably disrespectful.
TC had over $2 billion in net income from you folks in 2006. Some cynics suggest that they make sizable annual donations to the National Education Association, American Federation of Teachers and the American Association of University Professors who approve and support your 403(b) plans. Those contributions keep the doors closed to better competitors. Certainly Dodge & Cox, Vanguard, T. Rowe Price and Fidelity have 10- and 20-year records and the performance of their funds outshines, by orders of magnitude, the trash offered to you by TC. And certainly the annual fees of Fidelity, etc., are a lot less than those enormous fees you pay to TC.
You can move your 403(b) to an IRA at any brokerage firm, which should solve your accounting fiasco and the expanded choice of funds would give you better performance. It’s time to take the politics out of pension plan business and give performance and profits to the participants. Two billion dollars a year is a lot of vigorish to be earned by a nonprofit organization that claims its dedication to providing retirement security to those in the teaching profession. TIAA-CREF’s performance, its perverted back office, its $2 billion of annual income, the huge salaries and perks paid to TC’s administrators, its poor choice of investment alternatives and high cost are officious and insulting to its captive participants.
I suggest that you and your dozen dissatisfied professors ring Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, Vanguard, Dodge & Cox, etc. and ask them how you can exit from the iron grip of the Teachers Insurance Annuity Association-College Retirement Equity Fund.
Please address your financial questions to Malcolm Berko, P.O. Box 1416, Boca Raton, FL 33429 or e-mail him at malber@comcast.net.
Dear Friends,
I recently made a post referencing problems I WAS having with TIAA-CREF, and I would like to share the outcome of my case in the hopes that my course of action might work for others:
After two months of wrangling with TIAA-CREF, I was finally able to get a portion of my money. When I called to get the rest, the company told me that they had made a mistake and that it would be 12-15 business days before they could send out the rest of the funds. I knew from my previous interaction with them that they have a system in place to “walk through� payment requests and to get them processed in 3-5 business days. I pushed for the 3-5 day process.
To make a long story short, I told the customer service phone rep to send a message to his supervisor informing him that as soon as I hung up the phone I was going to follow up with the SEC regarding the complaint I filed against TIAA-CREF (I gave them the name of the staff attorney and the file number for my complaint).
You can file a complaint against TIAA-CREF with the SEC at the following link: http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml.
The outcome was that the balance of my money was in my checking account in less than 24 hours. Furthermore, it was seemingly impossible to get anyone at the company to do anything that would help me or resolve my case. But after mentioning the SEC, I received at least two calls from TIAA-CREF employees following up –finally—on my case letting me know how sorry they were.
Do not settle for what TIAA-CREF tells you!!!! File your complaint with the SEC. Then call them and give them a file number.
Good Luck!!
Ed
To be fair, Berko’s article sounds pretty one-sided. I found a link to TIAA-CREF’s response at
http://www.tiaa-cref.org/about/press/about_us/releases/pressrelease218.html
Check it out.
With reference to the link posted by “Rob”: Can you tell us, sir, that you are not an employee or paid flack for TIAA-CREF?
With reference to my post of March 8, 2007, I ultimately received resolution after filing a complaint with the National Association of Securities Dealers. TIAA-CREF never did give me the courtesy of a response to any of my requests, but lo and behold, more than $5000 in long-missing contributions were credited to my account about two weeks after I filed the complaint. To this date, my employer has been totally unsuccessful in getting TIAA-CREF to provide records supporting the dates for which the contributions of me and my other colleagues who experienced long delays were credited, which were requested because it is impossible otherwise to assure everyone that their contributions were properly credited. TTIAA-CREF’s service remains unconscionably poor.
as another former t-c employee with 10 years in their customer service, I can share a lot about the inner workings of getting money in and out.
when i “left” the company (practically involuntary) the new ceo (a complete piece of work from merrill lynch – nuff said) completely demoralized the entire company with his changes. the changes effectively caused anyone in upper management with a brain to be replaced by high paid puppets with no clue. he basically replaced clerks with tons of experience to run things smoothly for unmotivated low paid clerks to push paper.
reading the comments about getting money out being troublesome is disturbing. before i left,when forms received are approved, money is sent within 3 days or less. sometimes getting money out the first time can be delayed for misc issues related to error on forms completion, employer confirmation of termination of employment, or t-c data entry error. fixing some the human errors by employee, employer, or tiaa-cref is easy on a manual basis can be resolved relatively quickly. but processing millions of transactions on an automated is necessary and cost effectively if the programming isnt jacked up. simply put the ceo isn’t owning up to the problems and is absurb for him to still have his job and to be paid a huge bonus for non-results. the worst part is that if fired he would still be paid too much money.
fyi-imo moving your money to fidelity and the like is not necessarily any better.
Is there any way former employees can move their money?
My problem with TIAA-CREF was simply that my investments were performing *extremely* poorly, not quite losing money, but not necc. MAKING money. I was told that my institutional agreement forbade me from withdrawing and rolling over my money (for about a decade I have been getting this info). Alas in Dec 07 I called again and asked if there was a way to roll my crappy performing TC funds over to an IRA. I was told I could take the funds out and instantly requested forms to do so. I got my funds out in about two weeks worth of BS back and forth with TC and my institution and rolled then into my Fidelity account where I’ve already seen tangible gains.
The lesson here: Others who are told that they cannot roll over their funds need to get that in writing! TC sucks for investing!
um, i just saw the comment from “another former t-c employee” that “moving your money to fidelity and the like is not necessarily any better.” is completely wrong. I trade with fidelity and LOVE, LLOOVVEE, love them. My account has gained 32% THIS year alone! TC funds made 3% in 12 years. go figure.
A couple of notes from a former employee:
Because of all of the problems that many of you are experiencing, working at TC was a nightmare, but I won’t go into that.
Here are a couple of points to remember:
****Yes, the top management screwed up this company badly. Morale is low and it’s true that the phone consultants (I was one) are almost totally helpless and BLAMELESS for the situation. I’ve submitted requests time and time again, over and over and if it does get done, it takes weeks or months. It’s the computer system, mainly. If you had a problem, file a complaint with the SEC. Complaining to a ’supervisor’ does no good. They know how bad it is and take complaints all day long. It won’t go anywhere. Send a complaint to the SEC and a copy to TC. They are required to respond and keep the info.
*****DO NOT put money into the TIAA Traditional (Guaranteed) account unless you realize that you cannot take money out or transfer it at any time. It must be done (most commonly) over a 10-annual payment (9 years and a day). That is if the balance is over $2,000.
None of the other funds are like that, just this one. You would be amazed at the people that do not know this. This fund is like a bank CD. The funds are ‘locked’. And it’s true, there is NO WAY to make the $$ transfer faster. NONE. Even employees have to go through the 10-annual payment process.
****There are restrictions on moving your funds from your account at TC. THAT IS NOT TIAA-CREF’s POLICY!!! –> It was set up that way by the institution (your employer or former employer). If you leave that employer, in MOST (not all) cases, you can transfer your funds. It is the EMPLOYER that makes these restrictions.
*****If you still working for the same employer and are having $$ troubles, do not get a hardship withdrawal. It’ll kill you in taxes. Ask & see if you can get a loan. The rates are excellent and there’s NO tax penalty (as long as you pay it back). Here’s a SECRET — your funds are held in the Guaranteed account as collateral. YOU STILL EARN INTEREST ON THE FUNDS YOU BORROWED! So… you may be paying 5% on the loan, but your collateral is still making something, usually about 3-4%.
****If you want more control, TC does have IRAs (if you are available to roll funds).
Even though I hated my time there, TC is the cheapest (in my opinion) of all of the big-guys. Check the fees at Fidelity and others and charges for help/consulting. It’s a huge difference. (TC is for the most part, run as a not-for-profit.)
*****TC offers FREE asset allocation and retirement guidance services!! (If your employer allows them.) Use them! They will also help with investments elsewhere – NOT just the ones at TC! They do not advertise this service, but you can ask about it & see if you are eligible (your employer must approve). Fidelity and others CHARGE BIG $$ for this service and it’s 100% free at TC. The counselors are good.
*****I do not understand the problem with their investments. The TC funds are excellent, if you are in the right fund and know what you want. (Set an appointment with your LOCAL representative) – all free. They also offer mutual funds now, and are adding things all of the time.
*****NOBODY at TIAA-CREF is on commission. NOBODY. You really do get honest advice.
*****Remember, the phone consultants already have heard your same problem 1000 times and it wasn’t their fault. It’s frustrating, for you and them, but they can really only do so much until they finally spend the $$ to fix the systems. The horror stories are just amazing.
*****It’s really sad. I wanted to work for them. Great investments, expanding services, not-for-profit (in finance!) business model, NO commissioned salespersons, all of that… Unfortunately, I hated life taking all of those complaint calls. I was cursed at, you name it… and I understood the frustration. I did. Couldn’t take it anymore.
When they fix their problems, they’ll be #1 again.
Until then, it can be a nightmare dealing with transfers and such. However, the investments are great and the fees are low. If you do not need to take out funds, etc… you should have no problem. When they make a mistake, they fix it… it just takes forever. But, they will “make you whole” and backdate everything. Don’t worry about that… they WILL fix everything, when they cen get to it.
I suggest that everyone check the beneficiaries of their retirement accounts, I just discovered that mine has been somehow changed from my wife to my estate. This was NEVER the case.
I continue to have problems with TIAA-CREF. Last year, 2007, I started my minimum distribution. I sent them the completed forms to begin my one time annual distribution on January 1 of each year. It took TC several months to finally get me my distribution. I complained but nothing happened. In 2008, I received distributions for two accounts: for one it was several days late, and for the second, two weeks. I have not received distributions from three other accounts.
When I called TC, the person said the payments on three accounts were pending, but that I would have to talk to my “wealth manager”. He told me the problem was with the computer problem, the same answer i received a year ago, and one that seems to be given to all people who complain. I received a message from her saying they were having to research the problem, and she would contact me on January 28, 2008. It never happened. I wrote a service representative who assured me that they took complaints seriously, but did nothing to help me. She gave me a number for Resources and Resolution that was not a working number according to the telephone company.I called aother person to ask who I could call to get results, and about the Resources and Resolution department or person. He had never heared of such a person or department, and said the only person that could help me was my “wealth manager”.
I tried another email to the service department, but got the message that my complaint had already been received and there was no need to write again. They take complaints seriously, they told me again. After futile tries, I finally wrote again to my wealth manager–by now, she was probably, or should have been, called my poverty manager.In the interim, I received a message on ‘february 2nd, telling me that the records showed my distributions had been made (they had not).
My wealth manager called me on February 4, but could not give me any information, and said she would give me telephone updates.I said I wanted email updates, but whe refused–I suppose they do not want to put anything in writing they do not have to–and I noticed on my 2007 tax forms that TIAA-CREF says they reserve the right to correct errors. But they seem to have many errors, but not many corrections. It is now February 6, 2008, five weeks after I was supposed to have received my distribution, and I am no closer to receiving it–or being told anything of significance about it–than I WAS WEEKS AGO. My wife, who has her own accounts, had a problem last year, and could not get it resolved, finally gave up even though it probably cost her a $1,000 in doing so.
TIAA-CREF seems to believe it is immune from any type of sanctions or accountability because the same problems continue to show up year after year, and nothing seems to change. Part of the problems come, perhaps, from the fact that TIAA-CREF had a monlpoly over university accounts in the past in that there was no choice when I started teaching except to join TC. After it had to allow for diversification, the bad, incompetent management continued, and the lower level personnel seem to have taken on the same incompetency, aided and abetted no doubt by low morale and incompetency in middle management as well. And now we are stuck with a downward market, and the liklihood that it is impossible to get money out of TIAA-CREF because of incompetency. IT IS A DISMAL SITUATION. I hope the person who wanted more specific information about problems a year or so ago is still reading this website.
I can’t wait to get my money out of TIAA. I was happy with them 7-10 years ago, but they blew a Roth conversion for me last year and turned my life into a nightmare.
Last week I talked with a wonderful rep on the phone to try to fix the problem. Unfortunately, all she could do was put in a “research request” and suggest I call back in 7-10 days to check the status. I asked if I could talk to her specifically again but was told their system doesn’t really work that way and that I’d have to take whoever picks me up in the call queue.
Today I talked with the most insulting rep. I’ve ever experienced. He literally laughed when I said I was told to check in in 7-10 days. “It’s ridiculous to expect us to respond that quickly. We’re a big company with over 3 million clients.”
I’ve got the names of the folks I’ve dealt with, but unfortunately I can’t find anyone higher up to a.) solve my problem, and b.) reward the good reps and punish the bad.
I wanted out over a year ago when I started having problems. With this mess gets cleared, I am *so* done with them.
Does anyone know what’s up with the recent letter from TC dated Jan. 17, 2008 where TC claims that expenses from May 1, 2007 to April 30, 2008 were underestimated compared to the “actual costs”? The letter clearly indicates that a major revenue shortfall of unspecified origin has resulted in “revised estimates [that] reflect higher actual expenses” for many accounts. I spoke with a supervisor who emphatically stated that funds would not be retroactively taken out of my accounts even though I hold those that are on the list. But what he said made no sense, because the whole purpose of the letter was to inform participants that actual expenses were higher than estimated. I felt like he was trying to confuse the issue so that I would just let it die. I am really steamed about this, and it seems like a lot of money is involved in this “adjustment”. What is also annoying is that TIAA-CREF doesn’t think that it is important to clearly state how much “adjustment” was made to my account.
TIAA-CREF built a new data center last year in the Denver area that cost a bundle.
Problem similar to many above. Promises but no action. Can not get first payment of 10 year pay out annuity. Have been trying since Nov. 07, it is now Feb. 08.
Our ongoing problems were taken care of in less than 2 weeks after we emailed the TC Board, trustees@tiaa-cref.org, via their website.
I have been try to get my paper done and every time i call they tell you some then that you have done wrong when it them that have not done any thing at all for you. It make you so angry when the are the one that are doing the wrong thing . I seen in paperwork and they said that it has to be together for them to work on it and then call yesterday and they said that need new paper work.
My husband and I have been trying for the last two weeks to get a mistake by TIAA-Cref straightened out in time to properly file our 2007 taxes. Seven phone calls later, we do not have a resolution of our problem. We are waiting to hear from them again on Tuesday, 3/18. If they haven’t corrected what they all admit was their error (paying taxes on a rollover), we will definitely notify the board of directors and the SEC. If we could withdraw all of our funds now (not the kind of account where we are allowed to do so), we would. It’s been a nightmare and this is the second year in a row they have put us through this. They are incompetent beyond belief!
Planning on moving my Principal Simple IRA into TIAA-Cref account. Is it any worse than any other major investment firm? They are all under-regulated (thanks to Bush) but is there any reason to stay with what I have?
Cheers.
After trying for two months, by certified mail and phone, to get T-C to correct a simple error on their part, I went to a branch office for some face-time. Seven days letter, I received confirmation that the correction had been made. Maybe this is the only way to deal with them.
Let’s hope the new management will be able to clean up Allison’s mess.
What’s wrong with Principal?
TIAA Cref recently began administering the CalSTRS 403(b) accounts. My wife requested to roll over some funds to CalSTRS to purchase service credit. They ignored the instructions in the acceptance letter (and the enclosed envelope) and mailed the check to their own address! They got that address off of their own form! It took one month and about 7 phone calls to get that fixed. In the end, the check was received but they somehow shorted it by 18 cents.
Then we checked the latest quarterly statement on the web site. (We are signed up for email notification but never have received one.) Two of the contributions were not credited. In the previous quarter one was missing. The representative said they were received but reversed, and he could not see why. They are working on that one now. I have CalSTRS involved too.
Their web site is not too hot either. They have the wrong phone number for CalSTRS, their big new client. I wanted to rebalance but the only option is to do it once a year on your birthday. I’m not impressed. Compared to mine, it’s rudimentary.
Everybody seems to want to help solve these problems but it seems so difficult to fix things. The machine makes a mistake. All they can do is send and instruction to make the machine correct itself, in 7-10 business days. But then it doesn’t. Send another instruction and wait 5 business days; rinse and repeat.
Anyone know when the Quarterly statements are to be expected? I was told they had a legal date when they are to be postmarked and mailed? I have yet to receive mine this quarter. Last January mine took about 3 weeks to get to me. There was an article about this in the Denver paper and they blamed it on the snow. However, no one else took 3 weeks to get anything from other companies?
I just read about and saw that Allison is out. So I did some research on the new CEO. Here is some interesting reading from the WSJ.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/04/03/harvard-jd-roger-ferguson-tapped-as-new-tiaa-cref-head/?mod=WSJBlog
I have never read so much amusing stuff in my life..
TIAA-CREF is one of the oldest, most well respected financial services company in the US. Most of what has been posted here is just simply untrue. The company had a major systems overhaul from 2003 through 2007. Yes, that did cause some problems regrettably with transactional types of business like withdrawals and transfers etc.. The systems needed to be overhauled because the company tried to continue to plug holes in a Legacy system that was 40 years old.. The company wanted to offer a larger menu of products and services and this systems overhaul was a necessary evil. Herb Allison made tough decisions to make TIAA a company that could compete in this market with the Fidelity’s and the Vanguard’s eating away at TIAA-CREF market share every day. TIAA has had some growing pains but there is a light at the end of the tunnel Most of what the folks on here have written about performance is untrue. TIAA CREF has several 4 and 5 star funds with Morningstar and it credit rating through S&P, Moody’s and Fitch are AAA.. Yes people… AAA! The CREF Stock Variable account has average over 11% since its inception in 1952 and has a measly expense ratio of 39 bps a year. We have several great money managers. You know why TIAA wasnt hurt by the sub prime crisis? Because our money mangers saw it coming long before it happened and unloaded. Talk to most people on your campuses and research hospitals or museums who have invested with TIAA for many years and they will tell you how great a company it is and the fortunes TIAA-CREF has helped them realize with investing long term for their retirement.
Ahh.. RUDI..
Do you know what ERISA is? I suggest you look it up.. Your spouse needs to sign the spousal waiver after you sign the withdrawal paperwork for the amount you wish to receive. Your spouse is basically signing off that she is aware that you are withdrawing funds from a ERISA sponsored retirement account and she is waiving her right to any survivor benefits on that withdrawal. It is the law. The reason her signature has to be notarized after you sign, is that she has to agree to the amount your wanting to withdraw and the notary needs to see that.
After my comment posted on November 21, 2007, I decided to stay the course and give TIAA/CREF one more chance, since they had apparently completed their reorganization and made important changes in their leadership. I recently made 2 separate withdrawals; one on line, the other requested by fax. The response time was extremely fast, and the funds deposited/mailed in record times. This was a distinct change and improvement in service from prior experiences. Those of us who have problems should report them to the highest possible level. On the other hand, when we are well served, it seems appropriate to acknowledge it.
Is “CREF for Life” (#70) suggesting that those of us reporting service problems are making them up? I have been a T-C participant for over 30 years and fully agree that it USED TO BE a great company. Maybe, under the new management, it will be again someday. Comment #72 gives me hope.
F ROBERTS:
I am not suggesting that everyone on this thread is making it up at all. TIAA-CREF had a very rough stretch in which we are still going through, although things are certainly better. It was nightmarish at times with all of our systems issues. Like I said, there were a lot of transactional type problems, like withdrawals, rollovers, trades etc. TIAA wound up damaging its reputation a bit, but the technology changes were completely necessary to keep TIAA a strong organization. Some of the posts here are completely untrue. For someone to say that they made 32% at Fidelity and their TIAA funds made 3% in 12 years is complete garbage. They had to have been in a money market account all that time, if that were true and had no idea what they are doing.. Read about how many funds TIAA has that are 4 and 5 star through Morningstar.. TIAA-CREF has the highest credit ratings in the industry! AAA across the board. Every single TIAA consultant has a 4 year degree and many have CFP or CHFC designations, many have MBAs and many are series 7 registered and have the series 65. To say that TIAA consultants and wealth management advisors are idiots and incompetent is just complete rubbish. What a joke. TIAA-CREF is a great organization and is back on track. Are wealth management group has been rated one of teh best in the industry. Dont believe everything you read about in this blog. There are a quite a few bitter people that experienced trouble and the company as a whole regrets all of it. We have 3 million participants and the truth of the matter only a small percentage were affected.
Your loyalty to your employer is admirable, but you might want to re-examine your contention about “every single TIAA consultant.” I recently met a very nice young fellow whose title was “Wealth Management Advisor.” When I googled him to find out something about his qualifications, all I could find was that as of the fall semester, 2005 he was attending a community college. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I’m not suggesting that he is an “idiot” or “incompetent”; in fact he was on the dean’s list. But if I were looking for someone to guide me through the present economic storms…
Since you are apparently an insider, perhaps you can answer a question I have about TIAA’s consultants. They reportedly do not work on commission but on salary plus an “incentive” based on customer service. Just how does that work? What are the metrics?
I’m happy to see that you believe that T-C is doing well. On the other hand, in April TIAA-CREF posted a service update on its website that indicates that the system change is not complete and that there are still service problems. I’m not sure why you, as an employee, think that the changes are complete.
My contacts indicate that there are still problems but there has been progress.
I am quite aware of the law. It is the process that was SILLY. Trust me. Had you been in my place, you would have been similarly annoyed by the way that was handled.
After reading comments on T-C, I find that my experiences with them are not unique. I withdrew funds in an emergency two years ago and it took a month of calling everyday to finally get them. A three page, single space letter of complaint received a boiler plate response with no mention of possible corrective measures or even acknowledgemnt of the subject of the problems. As the bulk of my investment was with after-tax dollars, I feel I could have made a wiser choice. Now I want all my money out of this organization but like others, I find that a good portion is in a TIAA Traditional account with a 10% disbursemetn over ten years. Moreover, everyone that one speaks to has a different answer for the same questions. In the previous attempts to get a straight answer I asked the person if he was in the continental United States. He was, and was the first person to give me the information that I needed in a straight forward manner and encouraged me to write the complaint letter. This was at the end of a month of calling to find our where my expected funds were. Wish I had read the other complaints first, I would have taken all my funds two years ago. I started making contributions over twenty five years ago and I could not have anticipated this. I do hope that the service is better as noted in a posting, but if my recent inquiry by phone is any indication of improvement I have faint hope. The information given was convoluted, hard to follow and in terms of forms, numbers were either transposed or did not exist.
In retrospect it would seem that it was designed to discourage contributors from accessing funds.
God help those who have to deal with Colorado. They cannot handle the simplest transaction without piling error on top of error. What should have been the simplest of transactions has turned into the biggest mess, and this isn’t the first time. No one tells the same story. Past problems only were addressed after I contacted New York. Thanks for the SEC, Board of Directors, and other links. I plan to use them.
I would love to see these guys get nailed in some sort of class action suit.
Financially educate yourself before doing anything with your money. Just because TIAA offers free advice, that does not mean that it is good (or necessarily bad) for you. As many of the previous posters have experienced, TIAA sells annuities and once you are in, it is very tough to get out and your return on investment depends on what you are invested in. Annuities are not for everyone, but if your company only offers a 403b plan, you need to understand how they work and how you can get the most return on your investment.
As for the comment by “Cref for life”- bravo, that was a nice sales pitch. Firstly, the average stock fund generates a 10% return over the long term and one can get better expense ratios (as well as lower turnover rates with many Vanguard funds). While Morningstar is a good rating company, just because a fund is four or five-star rated, does not mean that it will make you money. Morningstar bases its ratings on past performance and in the investing world; the past doesn’t necessarily dictate the future (e.g. look at 5 star rated PTRAX- one thinks that they are invested in an interm bond fund, when it is just a high priced money market with about 85% cash) . The AAA rating by S&P, Moody’s and Fitch refer to the quality of fixed-income investments within the fund, not about the fund itself. As many smart investors know, you only want to invest in AAA bonds when you are trying to preserve capital (you are retired or will be retired soon) because being that they are the safest, one gets very little ROI. Lastly, are you sure that TIAA was unscathed from the sub-prime problem? The last I checked, the REIT and stock funds were down a lot and many people are hesitant funding their retirement accts- everyone was hurt by the sub-prime crisis-whether directly or indirectly.
As I reiterate, I suggest that anyone coming to this site for information about the problems with TIAA educate yourself before investing. Just a simple understanding for what and how an annuity works will be beneficial. If you are in NY and still feel uncomfortable or hesitant about investing with them, go across the street to the Fidelity branch and listen to what their advisors say before making a decision. For those who are thinking about taking their money out of TIAA, understand what a 90-24 transfer is and how much of your investment you will be surrendering to TIAA-sometimes it may be beneficial to keep some money at TIAA and allocate the rest somewhere else.
As for my personal opinion, I would invest elsewhere- Vanguard, Fidelity, etc because don’t think the new CEO is going to make TIAA any better, especially after his tenure at Swiss Re and one cannot even get through when calling the New York office.
Joe: What is a “90-24 transfer”? I’ve never encountered the term. Thanks for your post.
Froberts,
A 90-24 is a non taxable direct transfer of 403b monies to another 403b carrier. Problem is if you are still employed, your employer will most likely dictate who you can do the 90-24 to.
Joe,
Sales Pitch? I think not. I speak only of fact.
AAA ratings from Moody’s, S&P, et al also are the prime indicator of a company’s financial strength and claims paying ability. We are not talking about funds here, we are talking about financial strength. TIAA-CREF is only 1 of 4 insurance companies in the United States with AAA ratings from all the major ratings comapnies. This is huge, because in the insurance industry there is no FDIC. Remember Conseco? So youre not getting what I am saying..
Secondly, youre wrong about about average rate of return. The average equity fund returns 7.7 percent over a 30 year period. TIAA-CREF’s expense ratios are every bit as good as Vanguards for the most part.
Thirdly, TIAA has one annuity account (Traditional) that is difficult to get out of because of the illiquidity of the long term investments that it invests in such as long term treasury bonds etc. The TIAA Traditional is a guaranteed fixed account. It is only illiquid in a retirement annuity (RA) and (GRA)contract. It requires a 10 payment over 9 year payout. The liquid TIAA Traditional account pays less interest in an IRA or Supplemental TDA account but it is liquid at any time.. All other CREF accounts and T/C mutual funds are fully liquid at anytime, as long as the employer’s cash rules allow for it. Most institutions are fuly cashable.. SO please dont say that TIAA-CREF annuities are hard to get out of.. They are not, and your statement is simply not true. And by the way, TIAA does not have sales or surrender charges on their CREF annuities.
And lastly, yes, TIAA-CREF came out of the sub prime crisis virtually unscathed. We have some of the best money managers in this country.
Please post your questions and concerns on here and I will look at this site from time to time to help you all with questions and concerns.
Hello,
There are a couple thinks I would like to learn about TIAA-CREF and can’t seem to find. I am hoping that TIAA-CREF employees might fill in the gaps.
First…for a new employee, what are the paid time off benefits? Please presume director level.
Second….would anyone know general pay ranges? Or does it depend too much on the job to even guess? I would be interested in manager, director, and VP.
Third…what percent of salary do people get as a bonus? Again, maybe for manager, director, VP if you are able.
Last…would you be able to tell me the 401K match please?
Thank you!
Hi f roberts, as “Cref for Life” stated, a 90-24 transfer is a way of transferring your 403b to another financial institution and your employer will dictate where the funds can go. You should find out about it as it may be a great financial strategy for you.
“Cref for Life”: I do apologize that I misconstrued your statement about the AAA rating, however my conclusion is still the same-it has nothing to do with the performance of the funds and whether I will make money investing in TC funds. The way you are referring to it, the AAA rating has to do with TC’s ability to pay out its’ claims and obligations and is based on the company’s past performance. As I stated in my prior post-smart investors know that the “past doesn’t necessarily dictate the future” in investing and for young teacher, such as myself, who has about 30 years until retirement, this rating is meaningless. When it is coupled with Morningstar ratings it usually is a “sales pitch” (all that is needed is a little disclosure on the bottom of the post to inform the reader to read the prospectus for risks, fees, etc, before investing).
I think that you are mistaken in your ROI rates and are giving me the average for a domestic equity fund, not a global fund (one that invests in the US and foreign countries) as the CREF variable stock fund is. Either way, past performance is no guarantee that the investor will achieve that rate in the future. However, what is guaranteed is that fund fees will erode the gains. TC funds cannot compare to the low fees (or low turnover rates) of Vanguard (I’m referring to actively traded funds and not the ultra low fees/turnover rates of Vanguard’s index funds or admiral shares).
Also, I still stand by my conviction that it is tough to get out of TC. This is because besides the annuity that you outlined in a prior post, the investor has to deal with incompetence-transactions that should take a few business days, take weeks. I also refer to the TC representatives that can’t help you, transfer you to different branches around the US and the rudeness of the people who you are transferred to (like the caller intentionally wanted to be transferred to these people knowingly that they cannot help him/her). I think that this mentality that the client should be thankful that he/she is able to invest in TC stems from the top executives down and needs to be changed. TC should be thankful that the investor is putting his/her money with them.
So as I reiterate from my prior post, I suggest that everyone reading this board educate yourself financially (a little goes a long way) so that you can see through transparent “sales pitches”, understand why the free advice of putting an annuity (a tax deferred product) within a tax deferred account (403b, 401k) is bad advice and how not to let hidden fees (like transaction costs from turnover rate) erode your gains. Also, a little financial knowledge will allow one to make rational grievances to one’s HR department because unfortunately we all don’t have employers that look out for the best interests of their employees, like the University of Minnesota, who dumped TIAA-CREF last year because of “inaccurate record keeping” and poor customer service.
I really need some help here. I worked for a company for over 13 years. I got laid off in 2001. I was told when I signed up for TIAA Cref that if my job terminated I could leave my money in there or take it out completely. Nobody ever told me about the problems with the Traditional. I was never told by my Human Resources Dept or by TIAA Cref that I had 120 days after termination to take my money. In the meantime, in 2002 I contacted them because a young family member died and I thought I could take my money and help with the funeral. Wrong! Then in 2005 we purchased a new home and I asked again, no only annual annuity. Well in 2006 I got diagnosed with some major medical problems and it has been all downhill since then. I have fallen behind in all my bills and really need my money. I want to know if there is anyway possible to get my money. This is my money, and I need it fast. What can I do. They never explained anything about my plan, I have 2 accounts, just found out I had 2 this year. They are terrible to deal with, they give you different information all the time. I went to an accountant today who is going to try and help. What are my chances. My next step if I get nowhere will be to contact my local Senators office. Any advice, I am having a real hardship here. I am seeing an eye specialist montlhly, rheumatologist and now an onocologist. What am I supposed to do.
Jade,
I am really sorry to hear of your health predicament.
There are ways to get your funds out of a Group Retirement Annuity in the TIAA Traditional. Assuming your former employers plan is cashable, you can do a 5 Year fixed period and liquidate the account entirely. You can also get a retirement transition benefit of 10% up front as a lump sum. If you looked at your GRA contract, you would have seen the 120 day after termination lump sum provision. You all need to understand that you need to read the contract before contributing to a plan. Your benefits officer should have explained how the TIAA Traditional investment works or you should have read the prospectuses first. I am sorry about you illness, and I will be more than happy to answer any questions for you. Dont go hiring an accountant.. This isnt rocket science.. Going to a Senator will not help either.. Big Waste of time.. TIAA has been sued hundreds of times regarding the illiquidity of TIAA Traditional. And everytime the state insurance commisioner throws it out..
Let me know if I can help you further.
TC is not the company it use to be. Depending on the manager you have and the HR rep you get, when your laid off or let go you can get a different outcome. For instance. You either get all your accrued vacation. Or they will take out some for the year or carry over from the previous. Or not even pay you whats accrued. I see they are staffing this site now so who knows what will come back.
In May 2007, I submitted forms to have my annual payouts sent directly to my IRA account with Fidelity. I spoke to numerous counselors [over seven] and each provide new and different information. The process required the submission of “six” complete and notarized forms for each of my three accounts. At one point they cut a check payable to me that had to be returned. I was assured the problem was corrected and checks were sent to my IRA.
In May 2008, I thought to check on the payouts for 2008 and learned they were in the process of sending them to me again instead of my IRA. I was told the 2007 paper work only addressed the 2007 payouts. There was nothing in their files that addressed future years. I again submitted new forms, one for each account. On June 9th I received a note from Fidelity that TIAA-CREF put a stop payment on one check without notificationn to me. I learned after repeated calls they had issued the check with the wrong amount [they withheld taxes and did not apply over due interest]. I also learned they, without authorization, re-invested the other two payouts in TIAA. No one could provide a definitive response on how and when these issues would be resolved.
I am wondering why after my mothers passing is it extremely difficult to reach competent employees of TC to check the status of paperwork that was supposed to be mailed out within the month she passed. Its extremely frustrating when we are coping not only with the untimely loss of our mother but mounting funeral, lawyer fees ect. Does anyone have any suggestions of whom we should contact to file a legitimate complaint? I have been bounced from department to department for 2 months now. Thanks
angsyr77,
If you’re within driving distance of a branch office, get some face time. That’s the only thing I’ve found that works.
Please accept my sympathy on the loss of your mother.
This is going to be long and unbelievable, but it may help others.
Right now TIAA/CREF owes me about $30,000 — a whole year’s living expenses. They sent the checks to the wrong address, which they admit was a computer error.
Where all that money is I don’t know; they won’t get back to me on that. All I can find out is that the post office sent them back to them with a “not at this address” notification?
Even though TIAA/CFEF has my telephone number and e-mail address, they never contacted me when the checks were returned. Wouldn’t any responsible agency, knowing that the retired, non-working recipient is counting on the checks to pay bills, at least try to contact the person when a total of about $30,000 in checks were returned?
But that’s only the start.
Not long before that I tried to change a beneficiary. First, they sent me forms that had to be filled out and notarized. It should have been simple.
I did all that and sent them back. Then I was told they were the wrong forms. They sent out some more forms, which, again, I filled out, had notarized, and sent back.
Then they told me that these, too, were the wrong forms. So they sent out another set (the third set, if you are counting) and I had to do it all over again.
Before long the whole process had to start over again. (And, no, nothing was “questionable”; it should have all been simple and straightforward.)
This time it took most of a year of calls and letters — including registered and overnight letters, which they recommended “to speed things up.”
Each time when I would call to check after a few weeks, I would find that nothing had been done. Not only was it all ignored, but they never told me there was a problem.
About that time I read about the man who had died thinking that his retirement funds would go to his intended beneficiary. But the change had not been made and all the money went to his previously listed beneficiary, his ex-wife.
After about a year of telephone calls and letters and getting nowhere, I sat down with a lawyer and asked what I could do. (I had had a massive heart attack and needed to get this cleared up.) Given the beauracy of TIAA/CREF, his only suggeston was that I keep trying, which by then seemed like only a time-consuming, expensive, and hopeless effort.
At one point I totally “lost it” on one phone call, and maybe that caused them to kick upstairs to a level that I was never allowed to get to before. Someone called and apologized. Then after more forms, it appears that this was finally taken care of.
Shortly thereafter I decided that with this level of incompetence I had better pull my money — a sizable sum — out of TIAA/CREF. As you may know, you can’t just get your money; they make you take it out over about nine years. I knew I would take a hit on income tax, but I figured at least I would have my money.
Wrong.
Despite my repeated instructions on the proper address, the checks were sent to the wrong address. Again, I was never told there was a problem. It was up to me to find out what happened. As of now, I‘m still waiting on the money — a year’s living expenses that they admit they owe me.
At one point I thought that maybe direct deposit would solve the address problem so I requested a direct-deposit form at different times from two of their people. So, far, no form. But maybe I need to wait a few more weeks on that.
Any more when I go to McDonalds or Wal-Mart and see the older people working there, I wonder how many of them worked all their lives, or had spouses who worked all their lives paying into a teachers’ retirement fund only to find out that the money they were counting on “got lost somewhere.”
Be kind to those people; one of them may be me.
Duane22,
It took me over 6 weeks to get $26k out for hardship purposes last summer. My only resolution came from sending a polite letter to the board of trustees (trustees@tiaa-cref.org) clearly outlining the situation. I had a phone call within 4 hours of sending that email and had my money 48 hours after that. Good luck!
It must do some good to be “seen” here, or maybe it was just coincidental. After I posted my letter about $30,000 being misdirected (etc., etc.), I got a call early the next morning — even before I was awake — saying “the check is in the mail.” I hope it is and with the right address.
I’ve also learned a couple things that maybe should be passed along. The web site for TIAA/CREF seems to have been vastly improved. (Even my lawyer couldn’t figure out the needed forms in the earlier version to try to help me.) So, if you haven’t registered for on-line service, that might be a way to go. At least all the forms, etc. are there.
I was asked about the man who died thinking that he had changed his beneficiary from his ex-wife to his children. There’s a moral here. Apparently he wasn’t good at keeping records and a photocopy of the request could not be found among his things. (He grew up in a time when if you requested something like that, you could count on it being done.) Of course my experience, and that of many others, proves otherwise. So keep copies of everything you send in and check to see if what you requested has really been done. Even if there’s a computer problem of some sort, your beneficiaries will have something to take to a judge or lawyer. But, of course, they will have to prove the date on the form.
Finally — I hope it is “finally” in my letters here — I need to note that the telephone counselors have all been very friendly and they’ve tried to be helpful. But the problem seems to be that they are sometimes getting conflicting and erroneous information. I also I get the feeling there is a major disconnect between these people and the other departments at TIAA/CREF and they can’t deliver on their promises.
It would be a great help if they got back to people on major requests instead of just leaving them in limbo and putting the responsibility on them to check to see if requested changes have been made. In this e-mail era it would be easy to send a “case closed” note. But we are left to assume “no news is good news,” when too often “no news” means that while have made the request, nothing has been done.
About two years ago, TC failed to deposit my monthly withdrawals for two months. I was told they were transitioning to a new computer system and having trouble. Evidently, they are still using this very lame excuse, because when my monthly withdrawal and directs deposit didn’t happen for July, I called and was told TC is “transitioning to a new computer system”.
Anyone know if there is a statutory time limit on how long a lame excuse like “new computer problem” can be used? I mean, at least you would think TC could come up with a new excuse. I’m thinking about bailing to Vanguard or Fidelity…. I don’t feel TC is reliable in managing even the most routine processes.
In the back of my mind, I wonder just how fast TC wants to get my (and other’s) retirement disbursement out. I mean, is it not to TC’s advantage to hold onto our money just as long as possible (due to computer glitches, of course)?
In 1997 I took a 10 year payout that concluded last year of all TIAA funds in what I had, at that time, as one TIAA account with a former employer. In 2005 TIAA-CREF split that account into several accounts per some federal regulation. They put some of the TIAA funds in that account and did not pay them out as I instructed them to do in 1997. They claim that since they created these new accounts (to serve me better they said in a letter) that I would have to initiate another ten-year payout. I think this is incorrect and illegal. Anyone else had this problem?
I was a long term employee, who began my career with TIAA-CREF in New York back in 1989. I worked for many years in the companies Actuarial department, where we calculated and processed all of the complicated transactions that you read about throughout this forum.
For example, some of you have said that years of your contributions or your employer contributions were somehow “lost” – well I could figure out how much you should have based on when the funds were received, how much, and what fund you were allocated to at the time. This could include transfers, payouts, ect. We were ALL required at the time to learn the MANUAL calculations needed to determine the outcome if the systems/programs were to go down.
At the time, the majority of the employees at T/C were long term and devoted. We loved working for T/C and were very proud to say that we did. The turn-over rate was practically non-existent.
When they opened the Denver service center, a few core employees relocated, but the majority were new hires. As you could imagine, it took a long time to really learn the in’s and out’s of so many plans, calculations, rules, ect. So to replace that type of staff isn’t something that is done easily.
After 8 years in that role, I moved to the IT group as a Financial Ops Analyst. With my background in the legacy applications, I was well suited in my new role. I was part of a relatively new group if IT analysts that came from the Business Side, and could work effectively on both ends of the spectrum. Our group consisted of ALL the Business Analysts, Change Analysts, and Project Managers. We were the only group like this in the organization. We ran all of the IT projects in the company.
The company was in the midst of setting up shop in Charlotte NC, and many hundreds of dedicated staff relocated to the south, but at the same time, they began to hire new staff to the annuitization and payment operations center, at a considerably LOWER SALARY than the folks who had 10 – 15 years experience.
Just prior to this mainframe system overhaul, Mr. Allison took the reigns, and he thought it would be a good idea to not only displace the higher paid, tenured operations staff with new employees, but to also completely eliminate the entire IT Business Analysis Team in one fell swoop.
So hundreds of folks, who had relocated, who had experience with the legacy systems, who were experienced IT analysts, Project Managers, ect were displaced.
Who was going to run the systems conversion now? Well, they turned to the Business Line Managers. People who had absolutely no IT knowledge, no Project Management knowledge, Managers who had experience in managing PEOPLE not complex systems, the systems that hold your money, transfer your funds, send out your annuity payments, calculate your MDO requirements and distribution amounts, ect.
That is where all the horrors began. They eliminated all the folks who HAD THE knowledge and experience to drive this system platform conversion, and then asked the already heavily burdened operations Managers to take on the additional responsibility of leading IT changes.
It has been about 5 years since they displaced all this knowledge, and from what I hear from my friends still in the company, they have been miserable since the day Mr. Allison took over. Gone was the love for the company, gone was the devotion to service and excellence. In it’s place were hundreds of new employees who had no loyality to the OLD WAY of doing things. In it’s place for those who remained, was the constant fear that at any time they could be axed. People who were putting in 20+ hours of overtime a week, forced to do so to keep up with the work load or get fired (this was insinuated, never spoken outright), but also told that there was no money to pay them overtime. While Mr. Allison was paid millions and millions of dollars.
He ruined a once great place to work, completely ruined it. It didnt surprise me as I kept in touch with what was going on there during the platform conversion. How could they have possibly hoped to be successful at this endevor when they fired all of the folks who could have made it successful? We were told with no advance notice, no previous communication, one day as we walked in that after years of faithful service, we were no longer needed. I had fellow associates who had just pulled up into Charlotte, families who didnt even UNPACK the U-Haul yet that they no longer had a job.
It was a disgrace what happened, and 5 years later things dont seem to be any better over there because of that man.
What I will say though is that TIAA-CREF was a great company once. It really was. We were so proud to work there, and like I stated earlier, working in Actuarial, we made sure that all the work was processed within 3-5 days, sometimes sooner. We had no other choice at the time! We made it happen, but the problems you have experienced was due to two things. New employees and the company converting a platform with no experienced people to run it.
I hope with Mr. Allison out the door, that this new CEO can turn things around and make TIAA-CREF the shining star in the industry that it once was.
I’ve posted here before but it has been quite a while. I probably know the other former T-C employee who recently posted. At the risk of sounding just like former employees from many companies who are disgruntled, I echo the sentiments. I stuck around for a while longer than most but eventually Allison’s axe got to me as well. What made T-C different than other companies was the dedication many of us had to the non-profit , pro-education orientation. Yes, it is a Fortune 500 company but it was more than that. Employees really felt that they were helping an important segment of society. Sadly, that has changed. Those longer term employees who are still there feel as if they are simply hanging on to a job…much like the rest of the workforce. Unfortunately, the customers have suffered. Believe me, the former employees know because we are customers as well.
After reading the latest post from another former employee “WAVES HI!” I just wanted to clarify something – and that is the use of the term disgruntled employee. At the risk of sounding like I’m bragging – I will say this. I was far disgruntled when I left. Sad? Yes, Scared? Yes, but not disgruntled in the sense that the term is usually used.
I worked with Senior Management for weeks after I left to help them locate important files, work flow processes, and documentation for all of the 7 projects I was working on so someone wouldn’t have to spend weeks searching for it. I had several very high level SVP’S continue to give me excellent references as I went on my new job search.
Those references helped me to secure the permenant position I have today.
In the end, being let go from TIAA turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I’m in a job that I love, and believe it or not, I make considerably more than I ever thought possible. Much more than I made at TIAA-CREF.
However, since my heart and soul was at TIAA – I was sad and yes angry at the way things were carried out. The way that we were displaced was very undignified considering the loyalty we had displayed during our years and years at the company.
I knew that what occurred was a very bad move, not only for us, but for the policyholders, and I turned out to be right. If Allison had kept the legacy folks around, I can almos guarentee that the platform conversion would not have turned out the way it did.
I also know how the morale of the staff completely changed after that first mass layoff, and yes, like the previous poster said – The folks there were left hanging onto their jobs. Not a good combination by any means.
So, again, I hope that this new CEO can turn things around and help bring back the awesome reputation in the industry that TIAA once had. I really do.
I have read through most of these comments as I am a current TIAA employee and participant. I am one of the newer guard that has recently taken a position here and have been treated fairly by the company thus far. They have recently increased the amount of vacation time for newer staff members… my guess is in hopes of luring young but experienced staff. The one thing that continues to linger at this organization is a dark tone from nearly all traditional staff members (5+ years of service). Rumors of layoffs fly freely at this company. The latest is a rumor of 10% reduction… note I say RUMOR.
With the new CEO here a restructuring is taking place top down. However, this restructure does not seem to be having dramatic shake ups in any part of the organization. As employees we are often emailed by financial officers requesting (almost desperately) emails and suggestions for areas of cost savings within the organization. I sense that these cost saving requests are the last straw before staff/benefit reductions. If enough money cannot be realized in streamlining the operations themselves then staff will have to be let go to bridge the gap.
I have been at many large institutions and corporations and TIAA is the first I have found that offers a competitive (or more so) salary coupled with a vast array of extremely generous benefits. They continue to support a mammoth beast of an employee retirement plan, the last of the great pensions…. and harbor a large amount of expenditures in health care costs. Something will have to give soon, whether it be benefit or staff reduction… I don’t believe enough cost savings can be realized in the operations of the organization alone.
I am of the opinion that one of the greatest hindrances to efficiency within this organization is the attitude of the old guard. If assurances can be made that all options will be exhausted before layoffs occur (cost savings, benefit reductions etc…) and relayed to staff accordingly it may greatly relieve the pressures felt by employees during everyday work. The saddest thing about TIAA is that the much of the employees joined with the thought of doing good and the purpose of the organization itself is centered around this… unfortunately that is not how much of business (and their new competitors) operate now. They are on a sinking ship that is built on the TIAA-CREF creed.
To DT (#99): If 5 years experience makes an employee “old guard”, that confirms the testimony of other employees who claim that T-C has axed people who knew what they were doing and replaced them with rookies who don’t. And that would explain the problems participants are having with your brave new world.
Who are the “they” on the “sinking ship” – the “traditional employees” or participants? Maybe traditional participants like me, who joined on the basis of the old “creed”, should rethink our investment strategy.
If “business is business,” maybe we’d be better off with Vanguard which is still (as far as I know) being run competently.
To dubious: My comment is more strictly to the employees being on a sinking ship. Your right, there isn’t much old guard left at this point. The ones that are, are close to retirement and honestly are phoning it in. It doesn’t much matter to the 20+ yearers if they get axed soon or not as they have a hefty retirement already setup and a severance package would just be a bonus.
However, given all the younger talent in house a turn around may happen in the distant future under sound leadership. Younger staff here are generally less vested and have much more to work for.
Back again, and I have a few more closing thoughts.
I don’t want to make it sound like “new” employees are not capable of processing the operations work. This would include Annuitizations, TPA accounts, RTB, Survivor Benefits, MDO Distributions, Change in allocation, Loans, Transfers, Withdrawals, Hard Ships, ect. There are programs that are used to calculate these requests. Can new employees learn these processes? Of course they can. My point was that there was a level of dedication and experience the legacy employees had that is not easily replaced.
When I was there, it was well known that it took at least a year to understand these complex transactions and how to process all of them. At the time, there were levels of Actuarial staff. New staff would process the work, and then a Senior Authorizor would review the entire case, and ensure that is was correct before the transaction was actually processed. From what I have heard, they have eliminated that. They also segregated each of the processes so that each team worked on a specific one. For example, one team processed only transfers, one team processed only loans, one team processed only withdrawals. They did away with that as well, and combined everyone into one team, and each employee had to learn every transaction.
When I was there, I created an internal audit process, where we sampled a selection of case work, and made sure all of the rules were followed, the correct documentation was provided, the turn-around time was met, and the transaction was accurately processed. If mistakes were found, it was recorded and a report was provided to Senior Management. I do not know if they continued that process after my departure.
I agree with he current employee on the benefits package. It was one of the things I loved about working there. The benefits were amazing – including my own annuities! The employer contributions rivaled anything I have seen since. I also agree that employees need to feel that the company will do everything it can to cut costs before laying off people. Working in an environment where you are constantly worried about losing your job, puts people in a state of mind that is not condusiive to quality work.
But from everything I read, the real problems at TIAA occured because of the mainframe platform conversion, and as I already stated in an earlier post, the havoc that ensued was due to the displacement of the legacy IT staff who could have ensured it’s success. Now that its over and done with, I think the worst of the problems are over. But, if as a company, TIAA cannot RETAIN the talent pool that it has, the employees will constantly be in the “new” category, and that will continue to present problems.
If they can retain their talent pool, and go back to having long term experienced employees, which is so important in this particular line of business, I think they could really turn things around once again. People get tired of constantly being in fear for their jobs and the very low morale there, and many jump ship because of it. This will turn into a viscious cycle if something isnt done soon, and who suffers the most in the end? The policyholders.
Allison ruined TIAA-CREF and he walked away a multi millionaire, happily living his life in his mansion in Conn. What does he care anymore? Maybe the new CEO will take a look at this board, and try something NEW. LIKE LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE WHO where there when the company was a great place to work and a great place to house your retirement funds.
DT – I am a former WMA and was with the company for almost ten years. Beware! The company has transformed from client-centered to money-centered. We were explicitly told to bring in the client’s outside assests regardless of the predicted problems and loss of credibility that would occur afterwards. Most of the upper-management is newer than many of the remaining experienced employees (i.e. actually know what they are doing). In addition, those upper-management people have their own interests in mind, not the client. My only advice is that TIAA-CREF will use you until you are no longer needed so do the same to them. Use the educational reimbursement plan and other benefits to the max because you’ll never know when your time at TIAA-CREF will come to an end. Do the right thing for you and the client and you’ll be able to sleep at night. If TIAA-CREF doesn’t want someone like that, so be it. There is life after TIAA-CREF. Best wishes.
I have a Roth IRA with TIAA-CREF and wanted to make a withdrawal of the contribution portion without triggering a 10% penalty and taxation on withdrawal of the earnings portion. On my account online, it said I had X amount in contributions (about 1/3 of the total value).
I called and asked if I withdrew that amount–the amount X stated on my personal account as “contributions”–would it be sure to be from the “contributions” portion and not come from the “earnings” portion. I was assured contributions always were dispensed first, “first in, first out”, and that I need not worry.
I logged in to my account online and ordered a withdrawal from my Roth of amount X. I promptly received a check for X, as requested.
Accompanying the check for X was a statement from TIAA-CREF that they were going to report amount Y (about 50% of amount X) to IRS as taxable income–fpr which I would owe taxes plus 10% penalty.
I checked my account online and the amount for “contributions” was now close to 50% of X.
I called TIAA CREF and asked why I was being sent “earnings” funds when I had been told “contributions” would be sent (”first in, first out”).
I was told that a withdrawal from a Roth IRA online CANNOT have “contributions” come out first before earnings. That can ONLY (I was told) be done by written request faxed or mailed in to TIAA-CREF, specifically requesting this.
I asked what then is the meaning of “first in, first out”? There was no coherent answer.
The TIAA-CREF person understood the situation and told me the ONLY way to correct it was to return the check, do a rollover, and then fax or mail in a written request specifying “take out the contribution portion first”. But I had already deposited the check (I needed the funds). I asked: since I was acting on what I was told, and had called in and specifically asked and had been reassured on this point, and since the amount of the withdrawal was not at issue but only how it was recorded in the bookkeeping (coding), could TIAA-CREF maybe fix it by reclassifying my withdrawal retroactively (since it was not my fault)?
Unbelievably (to me), I was told no, that CANNOT be done. TIAA-CREF, I was told, COULD NOT change the coding on my account. Simply was not possible to do that.
I objected that this was unfair and found myself talking into space. I had been disconnected (hung up on). I had been polite throughout.
I then looked up TIAA-CREF’s webpage on “Roth IRA” and found a written policy, very clearly stated, that all Roth IRA withdrawals are distributed in this order: 1. contributions first. 2. Rollovers contributions first, earnings second first in/ first out. 3. Earnings.
I called back to TIAA-CREF again, said I had lost my connection, went through the explanation again, and asked why this had happened. This person attempted to be helpful. He confirmed that a withdrawal from Roth IRA online CANNOT have the contribution come out first. There is simply no MECHANISM even to request this (when it should be automatic?). I pointed him to the webpage, on the TIAA-CREF website, saying this is how Roth withdrawals are processed, which was in agreement with what a TIAA-CREF person had told me on the phone earlier before I made my withdrawal. I said nothing at all on the website when I made my withdrawal indicated any differently.
This TIAA-CREF person was unfamiliar with the “contributions first” withdrawal ordered sequence stated on TIAA-CREF’s website until I showed him where it was and he found it and saw for himself. At that point he said I was correct and said this would be researched and corrected. By corrected, he explained, he meant change the coding of the withdrawals to what it should have been. (i.e. it is possible at TIAA-CREF’s end to enter a computer and change a code letter in correction of a mistake, contrary to what the first TIAA-CREF phone person had told me was not possible). I was told I would receive a letter about this and it would get resolved.
Are Roth IRA account holders at TIAA-CREF aware that it is literally impossible, by any means, to go through the withdrawal process online and get contributions out first? And that the online account withdrawal process contains no warning whatever of this? What is the point of having an online account management for customers when this utterly basic, completely conventional (and I believe IRS-required?) policy for Roth IRA withdrawal sequence is not only not done automatically, but CANNOT be done AT ALL? And then, once it is done and the customer discovers it, customers are told (in at least some cases, depending on which phone person they reach) that it is not possible for TIAA-CREF (however much they would like to be helpful) at their end to correct this?
Dear frustrated customer- I recall many similar issues when I had worked at TIAA-CREF for 10+ years. Basically, you were not counseled correctly which is a typical symptom of the mass lay-offs of the veteran people who not only knew the regulations but also the colleagues who could fix it. That is no longer the case. As I type this, additional TIAA-CREF employees are receiving lay-off notces while the overpaid upper-management increases the % by which they are overpaid! The conversations are documented so I would take this matter the management to research the incorrect advice and seek reimbursement for your tax liability as a result. It will take time and persistence, but it has been done- I know. Don’t even bother with the green reps on the 800#, immediately seek a manager or fax your issue in to the general fax# and then follow-up with a phone call to a manager. I hope this helps in some way.
LAYOFFS HAVE BEGUN AT TIAA-CREF AS OF MONDAY 8/4/08. 10% IS THE RUMOR THAT THEY WISH TO ACHIEVE.
T/C IS QUIETLY REDUCING HEAD COUNT IN CHARLOTTE NC OFFICE. YOU DON’T SEE THAT IN THE PAPERS OR THE NEWS. THEY ARE DOING THIS TO TRIM THE EXPENSES THAT HAVE RUN UP OVER THE TENURE OF THE OUT GOING CEO-HERB ‘MERRIL LYNCH’ ALLISON.
GO TO http://WWW.TIAA-CREF.ORG, SEARCH FOR EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AND READ THE DOCUMENT ON THE GUARENTEED COMPENSATION CONTRACTS OF THE EXECUTIVE MANAGEMENT TEAM FOR THIS “NOT FOR PROFIT” ORGANIZATION.
LHR74: Sounds like good advice, but how does one reach a manager?
Frank- You’ll still need to call the general 800 # and then request a manager once you actually reach a human. I recommend that you write a letter detailing your situation and fax it to 800-914-8922 so it is on record versus having a rep document the conversation. Once you have faxed the letter, I would then call to speak with a manager. Ultimately, these types of situations are handled by a group of people called the “Participant Relations” group. They are knowledgeable and most likely the more experienced folks in the company.
My August 5th comment about T/C beginning layoffs in it’s Charlotte Office has been confirmed:
http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2008/08/04/daily53.html
and
http://www.charlotte.com
I agree with the recommendation to Frank – I worked in Actuarial, and I am still familiar with the tax implications of a Roth IRA withdrawal.
Participant Relations is the place to go, do not waste your time speaking to anyone on the main phone line. If you are asked why you want to speak to a Manager, just state that you have repeated your complaint several times already, and you do not want to repeat it again.
I cannot believe that you had to point out the policy provisions listed on the website to someone who works on the phones.
Just an FYI on the call centers, even without the “layoffs” the call center has always had a very high turn-over rate. Because of the stress of that position, the turnover rate is 1-2 years – Not very long.
Thanks to the former TIAA-CREF employees for comments. (Note I am not “Frank”.) The key issue is that the TIAA-CREF online account management withdrawal process for Roth IRA’s does not disburse “contributions first”, despite this being published policy of major brokers such as Vanguard, Charles Schwab, and TIAA-CREF.
IRS publication 590 on Roth IRA’s says: “If you receive a distribution from your Roth IRA that is not a qualified distribution, part of it may be taxable. There is a set order in which contributions (including conversion contributions) and earnings are considered to be distributed from your Roth IRA … Order the distributions as follows. 1. Regular contributions . . .”
Since it is routine policy for brokerage houses, including TIAA-CREF, to automatically order withdrawals form a Roth IRA “contributions first”, the puzzle is why TIAA-CREF’s online account management for Roth IRA account-holders does not do this automatically, nor does it warn that it is not doing this, nor does it provide a mechanism for requesting this to be done.
The TIAA-CREF webpage stating that Roth IRA withdrawals are disbursed “contributions first” — automatically and routinely — is at
http://www.tiaa-cref.org/brokerage/inved/roth_ira.htm
“Amounts are withdrawn from a Roth IRA in the following order: 1. All annual contributions. 2. All conversion sums on a first-in/first-out basis. 3. All earnings from dividends and gains.”
HOWEVER: I just noticed this policy on TIAA-CREF’s site is actually stated on a page called “TIAA-CREF brokerage services”. Is “TIAA-CREF brokerage services” policy different from a TIAA-CREF normal Roth IRA account?
But how would a TIAA-CREF customer with a ROTH IRA using the website’s online account management know that a withdrawal from a Roth IRA online would be done any differently than the policy for ROTH IRA withdrawals of “TIAA-CREF brokerage services” on the TIAA-CREF site?
To clarify, the first TIAA-CREF phone person with whom I talked originally told me there was an automatic “first in/ first out” policy in the context of his advising me to fill in a paper form and mail it or fax it in. It was THIS–to be accurate here–that he told me was automatic first-in/first-out policy, contributions first, and I need not worry. A few days later I made the partial withdrawal from my Roth IRA of the “contributions” amount using TIAA-CREF’s online account management because it never even occurred to me that there would be any difference in consequences or TIAA-CREF procedures between withdrawing by paper, or by online, since it is the same account and the same TIAA-CREF. (And, dumb question maybe, but why should there be a difference?)
I am not actually trying to bash TIAA-CREF or its representatives, but simply wish to inform others of this feature of the Roth IRA withdrawal process in TIAA-CREF’s online account management.
Another reference might be helpful here on IRS Roth IRA withdrawal ordering, for those interested:
http://www.rothira.com/artupi.htm
Based on the information in this last item, the Roth IRA withdrawals can simply be reported correctly (in terms of contribution amount first) on one’s tax return. TIAA-CREF’s numbers concerning how much is gone from “contributions” or “earnings” actually become formally irrelevant (just misinformation to the consumer). I suppose the take-away lesson here for Roth IRAs is keep your own records of contributions, and do not rely on TIAA-CREF for this. Its sophisticated new hardware platform and software conversion just doesn’t seem to be up to the task.
Yeah… Unfortunately, there are layoffs across the company, most are non client facing people.
Still a great company, although it has changed over the years.. I started under John Biggs and he was a very reactive CEO who let our systems get extremely old and kept plugging leaks in a 40 year old Legacy system. Allison could have been better, but he set us up to be ready again for an extremely competitive business this niche of the industry has become…
Not to worry.. TIAA-CREF is still only one of three insurance companies in the USA with AAA ratings from Moody’s, S&P and Fitch..
We are 90 years old and will be around for another 90.. Roger Ferguson will lead us down a better path going forward..
Cref for life, no offense but you mention that CREF is laying off non-client facing people. The HUGE problem with this is that it dramatically affects the client experience. We have seen this with the conversion from legacy systems. Organizations like this often take the view that is easy to cut the back office staff and still maintain a great customer experience. This is the WRONG attitude to have. I urge customers of CREF to think very seriously about investing in this company under this layoff climate. They may have great customer service staff that can take your request promptly. However, the MAJORITY of complaints on this board and others relate directly to back end processes that are not being fulfilled end it end. No amount of promises from customer service is going to pull the money out of your Roth when you are ready to retire if the back end systems are a mess and the people to help fix customer requests have been cut.
Words of advice from a current TIAA-CREF employee… think very wisely before investing in this company. While you may see optimism from traditional employees or planted comments from public facing PR staff (yes they monitor this and other poor reviews of the company) the company is definitely in a large internal turmoil. There is no reason a current employee would stumble across this topic unless they have already been here and posted or are in fear of the layoffs and are googling it.
Final thought, they always trumpet the AAA insurance rating… think of it as a little league trophy, nice to look at for a minute but does it really mean anything in the long run?
DT (#113) You’re right, of course. As a participant, I had hoped that the new management would clean up Allison’s mess. Instead they seem to be exacerbating it. Considering T-C’s steadily deteriorating position during the Allison years, Cref-for-life’s comment about competitiveness is laughable.
As are those AAA ratings. The current financial crisis centers around AAA-rated investments which have turned out to be nearly worthless.
DT and Frank…
First of all.. DT..The company is not laying off service people in the back offices. There are plenty of people that are working in processing to process transactions.. The layoffs mostly affected higher level individuals making big salaries with no direct reports and were non client facing people.. Secondly, I cannot disagree with you more about the importance of ratings in the insurance industry.. The is no such thing as FDIC in the insurance industry. SO.. The claims paying ability of an insurance company is paramount. There is a reason that there are only three insurance companies in the US that can make this claim. The Creditworthiness of a company is extremely important. Especially an insurance company.. So your comparison of comparing it to a trophy is a just an uninformed statement. Obviously you dont quite understand the importance of strong financial ratings.
And Frank.. I have been with TIAA-CREF for 12 years.. In various positions client facing positions. Allison could have certainly done a better job with TIAA during his tenure, but you have to understand that he was handed a company that had some serious issues that had to be dealt with much more quickly than they should have been dealt with.. He was handed a proverbial shit sandwhich that we all had to take a bite out of.. I was there through it all and suffered much stress through the transition and nt being able to help our participants the way I was accustomed to. Like I said earlier, we had a 40 year old legacy system that could not be tweaked any further. We needed to offer an open architecture to our participants that would offer many more products and services to remain competitive with Fidelity and Vanguard and the like. They were eating into TIAA’s market share big time. Our biggest complaint was that we didnt have the products and services menu that people wanted and they were going to Fidelity et al. So along came Allison who lead through a huge systems migration to get thousands of college and university plans, research hospitals, museums plans etc along with three million participants retirement accounts over to a Sungard/Omni system that was programmed mainly for mutual funds and not annuities.. We had huge problems and TIAA-CREF participants suffered, TIAA-CREF suffered as well as its employees. We took a black eye more than once over the last 3 years, but we are going to be a better company down the road and much more competitive for the initiatives that Allison started. Wealth Management and Brokerage Services have been hugely sucessful and so has our mutual fund offering as well as other products and services that came along under Allison. So my comments are not laughable.. You are laughable, because you don’t understand.
Cref for Life….It’s wonderful that you are pulling the party line for TIAA-CREF. Only time will tell if your title is appropriate. You and I probably started at TIAA at approximately the same time so you would know colleagues who had relocated their families and their lives to Charlotte only to be let go soon thereafter. Many of those people thought they were “Cref for Life” too. It is great to mention ratings and creditworthiness but when a client cannot have reasonable access to THEIR own funds and/or are given inaccurate information, they tend not to give a damn about the creditworthiness of the company. As a client facing employee, you should know that better than most.
CREF for Life, I really don’t mean to offend but your wrong. These layoffs are not silos, they are not one or two people who have no direct reports and have phased out job functions. You do not layoff 10% of a company and restrict it to jobs that are upper management, fat paycheck, no direct reports. I can CONFIRM firsthand that TIAA-CREF is laying off service people. In fact over 400 alone have been laid off in Charlotte. Please, name a company of our stature that can layoff 400 people and not affect service or back office staff? You cant. Further, those that had service positions in contract roles are also being axed to the tune of 30% of the entire contingent workforce. (Not really a point I disagree with as it was a terrible business decision to convert staff in 2004 to contingent workers in the first place, which is basically what was accomplished)
I also still completely disagree with you about the bogus AAA ratings. Moody has proven itself to be increasingly unreliable amidst computer “errors” (http://www.dealbreaker.com/2008/05/moodys_multi-billion_computer.php) and poorly constructed ratings mechanisms. The markets are often compared to gambling, would I trust a company that is not independent, not free from bias, not non-profit or governmental, and often using fuzzy methodologies to tell me what funds are solid performers? I think not. Many companies that are on TIAA-CREF’s heels have a variety of funds that are better than what we currently offer including Fidelity and Vanguard. the AAA rating means little to many of them and they continue to steal participants and institutions. The company now tries to crawl into other markets realizing they are quickly loosing market share in the cores.
I urge all of you to avoid those that have obviously drunk the koolaid. My advice to all participants and institutional clients thinking about TIAA-CREF remains unchanged. Think carefully, do your research, and choose based on an informed decision. This company is ailing, it has been for years and will not turn around in a dramatic manor anytime soon….not by a long shot.
crefforlife,
you need help. you are defending a company that doesn’t give a crap about you! tiaa is horrible. ferguson will be of no help because he doesn’t have the qualifications. he was chosen because noone would take the job. he is doing what anyone with his lack of experience would do-fire people. i guess because you have not been hit-yet- you think that everyone is disgruntled. thats an ignorant way to look at it. the company has fallen apart. not everyone here is lying or angry.
i have seen tiaa lose million dollar checks. lose customer information. mail checks with no address. leave millions of dollars worth of checks on someones desk. change the terms of policies. a manager drop dead at her desk. ambulances carting employees out on a daily basis. doctors reporting the company for contributing to the poor health of employees. employees being terminated without packages.
and that was in the past six years. but i guess thats ok since these were ‘non client facing’ issues.
people,
do not invest your money in this company. they are no longer qualified to do the job. and think of how sorry you will be when the company folds. they are getting out of the insurance business. and they are taking your money with them.
I am an employee in a technology area. I joined the company when Mr Biggs was the president. He was a nice man but at the same time the company was viewed as a retirement home for employee’s with antiquated systems and financial offering’s.
I don’t agree entirely with how changes were made but some were needed. Everyone knows about Mr Allison’s 8 million dollar guaranteed salary per year. This is absolutely horrific when people with families are losing there jobs. I don’t think layoffs are appropriate or needed
Beginning in 2003 under Mr Allison the company did make many needed changes in its infrastructure. The tools for monitoring, changes, requests and incident reporting were all updated and standardized to cut costs. A centralized operations command center was put in place with the ability to recieve notification of system problems and act on it. Many old antiquated systems were replaced.
We in our area ot technology have provided 24×7 support for the development and implementation of new products. We are a very lean team providing this support and I am very proud of the job we do.
As I have said I am not a business person but it is obvious from what I can see that the business is working hard to expand its offerings and make wise decisions to benefit our participants. The processes for improvement are in place and this improvement is being seen and you will see it.
Yes, we do have some problems. Employee do live under fear because you never know when you will be terminated. The company has become a little too procedural at the moment. Employees are constantly taking tests, submitting attestations, taking repetitive training courses. We in technology are being audited constantly by external, internal and other groups within the company all in the name of sarbanes-oxley. It seems constant since 2004. Of course audit control is good but only until it begins to inhibit a technology person from doing what they should be doing and that is technology. If we can reel in the constant auditing overhead I believe we can make these layoffs un-necessary
In any part of your life always be assertive. If something is being done wrong always speak up about it. A thing I have learned in my life is that when you communicate issues clearly and persistently things do you get fixed. Be assertive , if a call center person is not doing there job then escalate it up the line always in a clear concise matter of what the issue is.
We in the company have families to support as do our participants. On that note , I and many other people at this company will work hard to right any wrong as we a have a big stake in it too. I am not working there for fun. I am working there because as and adult I have a responsibility to my family and you the participants. I promise you that I will never do a second rate job in support of my family or the participants that count on me.
“So along came Allison who lead through a huge systems migration to get thousands of college and university plans, research hospitals, museums plans etc along with three million participants retirement accounts over to a Sungard/Omni system that was programmed mainly for mutual funds and not annuities” – Cref for Life
I will state again that I do not consider myself “disgruntled” as I quickly found employment, and was very happy with my severance package. What I state here is based solely on my experiences at TC for over 12 years.
Since TC was basically an annuites company, not a mutual funds store, the first error in judgement was to migrate a platform however old, that housed annuities to a new platform that was designed around mutual funds.
If the Sunguard/Omni platform package did not offer what TC needed in terms of storing the annuitiy data, then TC should have worked with SunguardOmni to modify it original package to accomodate it’s needs. They could have spent some time developing the platform to handle the annuities, they did not.
In my current role, we are working with an outside vendor to do just that. The application they want to sell us was developed for another company, and we are working with them to develop what we need on top of their baseline application.
I remember prior to my departure, the discussions on how we would move forward in this competitve market, and how we would begin not only offering our own Mutual Fund options, but also giving Participants the opportunity to invest in funds offered by our competitors through our window. These discussions took place BEFORE Allison came in, so it wasn’t like Biggs didn’t have a clue, and Mr. Allison flew in with his red cape.
Allison hired an external consulting company to assess the organization from top to bottom, and it was this same outside consulting firm that determined which areas were to be cut. Were jobs eliminated that needed to be? I would say yes, as over time there is always a segment of positions that evolve and bring no real value. Were there job cuts made at the legacy level that seriously impacted the Omni conversion? As I stated in a prior post, without a doubt.
Saying that only non-client facing employees are being displaced really makes no sense, as if that will have no impact on the client experience. I will state it again, there were employees who had just pulled into Charlotte, SOME OF THEM STILL ENROUTE, only to arrive here after selling their homes, and leaving their families, and find out they no longer had a job.
Many of those who were displaced back then had spouses that QUIT their jobs in NY as well, and were planning on looking for work when they arrived here. Now two breadwinners were without jobs. I also know for a fact that after that debacle, TC tried to whoo back displaced employees and hire them as contractors. I dont believe that wasn’t their intention from the get go – With the same staff now contractors, TC has saved themselves the expense of paying Medical / Health Benefits, and Pension Contributions.
It is easy for you to say the things you have said, because you have not been impacted. But I will say this again, I really believe that TIAA-CREF can be the shining star it once was, but the foundation of what made it great in the past has to be rebuilt. If they can do that, that is half the battle.
I know is this day and age, no one really has job security, and that is a fact of life unfortunately, but an employee has to feel valued or else they will be a flight risk. I would hate to see TC go under. Under the right leadership, it still has a chance. Look to the past for what will make a difference in the future, and listen!!!
Wow, I’m shocked to see some of the stuff current TIAA employees are posting in here (pssst… it’s a public forum).
I sympathize with the hard workers who have been let go, I’ve known a number of them myself. But that’s about all I have to say on the subject. Good luck all.
Nobody has said anything about “ethics” or “ethical behavior”. I thought TIAA-CREF always wore the “White Hat” when I worked from them. During the Allison years, I personally observed that the TIAA Code of Business Conduct was a joke not to be taken seriously and that if over looking compliance issues helped increase the surplus, then so be it – bigger bonuses. I found Teacher’s business ethics sorely lacking and I think that has hurt them quite a bit in the market place. It is no secret that they “talk the talk” but don’t “walk the walk”. I observed severely challenged ethics in different functional areas and right up to the top floor in the executive suite where many of them still work. Perhaps the new CEO will clean house and bring in honest folks who play by the rules and believe in Teacher’s Code of Business Conduct. Their participants deserve no less.
Here is the text of a letter I sent to Participant Relations and the TIAA-CREF Board Chair in Oct. 2006. My letter was never forwarded to the Chair. Much later she wrote a note to me and apologized. While some of the problems seem to be improving, we still have many unsatisfied and frustrated employees. Our School is currenlty looking for a new provider. We finally gave up!
Twenty years ago, as a new investor, I was very impressed with TIAA-CREF. The customer service was extraordinary. I remember recommending TIAA-CREF life insurance and investment products to colleagues and friends. Sadly my enthusiasm for TIAA-CREF has vanished. In fact, over the last couple years I have lost trust in the company. I am writing to let you know why my trust level with TIAA-CREF is at an all time low.
Things started to deteriorate a couple years ago when I was looking to consolidate my investments with one company. Our TIAA-CREF representative explained to me that the company was offering a new brokerage services division. At the time, I had about $300,000 (including my CREF accounts) to consolidate. I called the brokerage services division to get some information. The woman I spoke with was short with me and clearly was not interested in my business. I decided to move the majority of my investments to Fidelity.
Over the last two years, I have called the TIAA-CREF customer service call center numerous times. Many times I have had to wait more than fifteen minutes to speak with a representative. The call center operators, while courteous, often times were unable to answer my questions. For example, one time I had a question about transferring money from my after tax money market account to my personal bank account. I called, waited 15 minutes, and was told that my call needed to be transferred. Again, I waited. When connected, the operator told me I could make a transfer from my money market account to my bank account via the website. I spent 20 minutes searching the site. I called back on a Saturday morning and a second operator told me that she could not answer my question because the mutual fund operators were not available. I called back the following week and a third operator said I could only make transfers via the telephone. At the beginning of that third call I selected an option to participate in a phone survey following my customer service call. I waited for five minutes at the end of my call, the survey never clicked in! This is just one example of confused call center operators, very poor customer service, an outdated website and a frustrated participant.
This year in early September I started having problems downloading CREF information into my Quicken program. I called the call center and learned about a recent computer conversion. Shortly after that call, I received a difficult to understand transfer letter from CREF about my wife’s account (we both work at the same school) stating that she would receive a new contract under separate cover. I never received a letter and later learned that my account numbers changed too. I continued to have trouble downloading information into Quicken and was having trouble matching old account numbers with the new account numbers for our family accounts. I informed our business manager of the problems and he emailed our account representative. I called the call center (one early evening) and asked to speak with a technology service person for Quicken support. I was told that tech support was only available during business hours. I emailed our business manager my Quicken question. I finally received a call from a CREF employee in Denver. Since Quicken is on my home computer and the representative was only available during business hours and was on Pacific Time, I needed to set up a phone appointment with him and take time off from work all to get help with a problem that CREF created. I spent close to an hour on the phone with him. He was friendly and helpful and I was able to reconcile the account numbers. I was disappointed; however, to learn that close to 20 years of historical data in Quicken was now unusable due to the computer conversion.
I also learned my problems were only beginning. Our investments have always been sent electronically and invested and credited to our account on the 25th of each month. Shortly after September 25th I checked the CREF website and learned that our contributions were not invested. I informed our business manager and he learned that the problem was conversion related. I was assured the money would be invested shortly and post dated to 9/25/06. In early October I received my third quarter statement. Our September investments were not listed. In fact, it took three weeks for the problem to be solved. At one point the money was listed as being invested on 10/3/06. Apparently that was a mistake and all investments were sold and post dated to 9/25/06. The investments did not appear on the website until late October. This morning I checked the website and found that our 10/25/06 investments are not listed. I called the call center and the gentleman said that the money should appear in 3-5 days. The saga continues.
All around, this is bad business. Why was the conversion not properly planned, executed and explained to participants? Why has CREF not sent a letter of apology to participants for the problems I listed? Why are call center operators not equipped to answer many participant questions? (Many call center operators confirmed that CREF is experiencing internal problems. One even laughed at my complaints.) Why is Quicken support not available during the evening when it’s most needed? Even our local bank has someone available to answer Quicken support calls.
Last night I called my bank regrading a 529 plan question. The call was answered quickly; the operator was extremely friendly and knowledgeable. It reminded me of the old TIAA-CREF. I like Stephen Covey’s emotional bank account trust metaphor. He says when you make deposits (good experiences, compliments etc.) to one’s emotional bank account you build up trust with others. Withdrawals (bad experiences, negative comments etc.) chip away at the trust level. Because of the many bad experiences I have had over the last couple years at TIAA-CREF, my emotional bank account with the company is depleted. Sadly, I soon plan to initiate a 90-24 transfer to move my $100,000 plus CREF SRA to Fidelity. I know many of my colleagues are also upset and considering transfers. I will also be advocating for another retirement investment provider for our employees.
I left Princeton University several years ago and wanted to roll over my funds from Tiaa-Cref to another firm. I was told that due to Princeton’s rules, even though I no longer work for them, I cannot roll over my money until 55. Does anyone know how to get around this rule? How is this legal? Why are they allowed to impose such a stipulation? And does that have any implications on fiduciary responsibility? Fund offerings, not to mention the customer service, are very limited.
If there is so much anger out there towards Tiaa-Cref, as I also have issues, why are people not demanding their institutions to withdraw their funds and find another provider?
Any thoughts would be appreciated!!
In spite of the inexcusable mess is bookkeeping that T/C has experienced in the past few years, I would like to point out that the traditional account is still hard to beat for a fixed income investment. If you plan to leave T/C, I would recommend leaving funds in the traditional account, and forget about them until retirement. I too have been looking at other providers, but have found no fixed income investments that come close to the traditional account with its guaranteed minimum and vintage system yields.
You may find this strange, but, contrary to most of you. I’m not happy with the creation of the new alternative investments at T/C. In my opinion, all these new mutual fund programs (which by the way triggered the need for this messed up new computer platform and other support services) simply add costs and little benefits to a T/C participant. Would be much happier if the only alternative was the CREF stock account (as it was in the old days).
My biggest concerns are with the changes in corporate climate and these increased costs. They are moving towards typical mutual fund company structures and activities, and perhaps away from the original mission of T/C.
Would love to hear from some of the old time employees about what went on internally during these changes, starting with the money market fund creation, loss of tax exemption, Katzenback(?) report, etc.
On the “traditional” accounts vs. the new fangled mutual fund offerings, I whole heartedly agree. During my years, I saw hundreds of folks annuitize their CREF STOCK accounts multi-millionaires. The secret back then was to leave your funds in the stock account regardless of the ups and downs of the unit values. Just keep piling on the units, for as many times as I saw the unit values dip (I had historical access to the stock unit values from inception to present) I then saw them rise higher than the previous high. With the original stock account, we added the Bond, RE, Global and several other “CREF” annuity allocation options, all of which did very well, but as an employee as well as a participant, I always allocated my contributions 75% to the original stock fund.
The move towards the mutual fund offerings was started because of the “competition” – I dont know if this was a perceived competition, or if it was based on some solid findings.
To the Princeton Employee, I do remember us having to review Institutional Rules prior to processing rollovers, withdrawals, ect, and indeed some institutions forbid transfers out of TIAA to another company. More often than not, the restrictions applied specifically to the Universities contributions and the earnings on those contributions, not the employee portion, so I would ask them to provide you with a copy of the institution rules for Princeton. You may be able to roll-over your own contributions and earnings.
A bunch of TIAA V.P.’s were relaxing in a Manhattan Jacuzzi. One V.P. asked. “How many V.P.s does it take to change a light bulb?
The V.P. of Technology said, “I’ve heard of light bulbs I’ll check into that.”
The V.P. of Strategic Marketing said” It doesn’t matter if the lights go out because I’m use to working in the dark.”
The V.P. of Finance said, “I can do it but I want a bigger bonus.”
CEO Roger Ferguson stood up and said. “You’re all wrong. You just lay off talented people, carry on with a computer system that doesn’t work, keep operating in an outdated mode and whoever gets around to changing it so be it. Now, lets talk about more cutbacks, ways to create chaos and lower moral.”
Hey Mystery J – Funny post, yet not so funny because it is true from what I heard. I read an article that 158 Charlotte Associates were let go. Has there been any more cut-backs since then? Do you know if the 10% across the board staff reduction is true?
I hope you weren’t cut, but if you were, my best wishes go out to you. It happened to me, and it was very hard, but I made it through.
Yes it’s true. And the well spoken rumor is that a total of 1000 employees will be layed off by the end of the year. They are doing it in piece meal. They just fired the president of their life insurance division. Part of the cost reduction was the reason. Employees are running scared. There is so many levels of hierarchy at that organization it’s not funny.
Never mind that they have over 2000 consultants running around in the company. If they are looking to save money, why not look at that group. If you can’t train your own staff to do the work there is a problem. It’s like 20% of the company is outsourced at a very large price tag and now employees are paying the price. Lay off the consultants for goodness sake!
Who was the President who was laid off? I’ve also heard through the current and former employee network that there are rumors of further cuts in staff. This could be because the big implementation is coming to an end.
Well companies only lay off people when they are having financial difficulties, which was why until the Sept 03 lay-offs, TIAA had never laid off anyone, for fear that policyholders would think the company was in trouble and flee.
Consultants should be the first to go before FTE staff … 2000 consultants? Thats a lot. Wow.
Former TIAA Employee I’m sorry to hear that you were let you go. I heard the rational they were using was 1) the market is bad and no one is investing 2) they were letting go of poor performers. I believe the market is bad, however I believe the more likely reason is nobody wants to invest with TIAA. I also don’t buy the poor perfomers story either. I think it has to do with letting go of people who have been with the company for awhile and have a salary higher than their counterparts. By the way here is a typical TIAA crisis story. I heard that they laid off people in the compliance department only to realize later that they had no one to replace them. I also heard that they only gave employees, that were laid off, one week of pay for each year they worked for TIAA. Does anyone know if that’s true? Best wishes Former TIAA Employee.
A few questions:
Can you refer me to the article about the 158 Charlotte Associates that were terminated? Am interested in what were their duties and whether these duties were transferred somewhere or were no longer necessary.
Guess I have the same questions about the potential 1,000 lay offs mentioned. Will there be fewer phone reps, WMAs, analysts…..? Are some departments safer than others? How firm is that 1,000 number?
Also, how firm is that 2,000 number of consultants, and what sort of things do they do?
Have the assets of the mutual funds and/or the traditional account decreased to justify these lay offs?
When Allison made those lay offs in ‘03, was there a decrease in employees, or did it just give him room to make new hires? What has been the trend in number and type of employees over the past few years?
Is there any sign that Ferguson is clearing out Allison’s people in order to get some of his own in? And the latter includes upper management such as the Life Insurance president.
I’ll expect complete reports by the end of the week. :-).
BH: This article from the Charlotte Business Journal discusses the 158 employees who were laid off in Charlotte.
I have had a problem related to TIAACREF IRS filling for 1099-INT statements. I took a pension loan, took it at the end of the year as a payment early, paid the IRS 10% penalty. For several years after TIAACREF sent 1099-INT statments for that same loan. The Interest was imputted (not real or as I call phantom income). I realzed something was wrong. Called TIAACREF and after a long period of getting different answeres they finally answered that they said the IRS required them to imput the interest even though the loan was gone (if I still worked for the same company). I did not. They refused to go backwards and correct their IRS 1099-Int fillings. I have the attorney General of Connecticut after TIAACREF and have filled an official IRS complaint. I have brought it to the US Attorney General now. You have got to wonder at this company what is going on???
I worked for TIAA-CREF for a few years and was let go recently. They claimed it was due to “performance rankings”. It’s kind of hard to believe that I was one of the lower performers even when you consider there were 4-5 new people who had been there less time then me. How could they be better performers when I know for a fact that several of them didn’t even have work to complete from week to week? Whatever. Having experienced the call center, I can say that that has to be one of the worst ran operations I’ve ever experienced. I quickly discovered that it really wasn’t about client satisfaction. It was all about productivity, calls taken, not ready times, etc. If you’re complaince numbers were off or you spent too much time off the phone, that was a huge deal. A client not getting their payment? Not so much. I hated the call center, because TIAA-CREF exempted back-office processors from any kind of accountability whatsoever. If a person asks for $20K and you send him $2K, you should have to answer that call and explain what the hell it was that you were thinking about. They lean too much on their processes and really show they don’t care about client satisfaction. God forbid if something was “escalated”. It took forever. Herb did do some good things realizing TIAA-CREF was operating in the stone-age, but he also created a lot of fluff positions. Morale in the call-center was extremely bad, especially among employees with 5+ yrs of experience. I tried to get out as soon as I could and I did. I used them and their tuition reimbursement for everything I can get. They set me up for a nice opportunity somewhere else. Thanks CREF! I’ve been out of the call center for a yr and I heard they’re still messing stuff up. The conversions are over thank God, but they are still trying to soothe over frustrations from the bigger institutions. This is because they thought it not necessary to communicate issues that may occur due to the conversions to their top institutions.?????? Just mind-boggling. Anyway, I will say that TIAA-CREF can be a great company. They just need to realize they are not as big a player as they think they are and get back to a true client-focused agenda. They’re even beginning to push product with Wealth Management Advisors. Really cracking down on them to talk about solutions with every client, even in cases where it may not be appropriate. Anyway, good luck to them and I hope FINRA gets off their back.
Class action law suits are a big waste of effort. The lawyers get 33% and the rest is divided by the class. Ie $40 each or such.
I still work with TIAA-CREF. Every month, there are at least two notices sent out to employees to announce the promotion of someone to a new made up position. The lady in charge of some silly game playing exercise that the company did last year (knowledge map), she was promoted to executive of corporate equality, or some silly title like that.
It seems like there are people that worked with higher ups in the corporate office, and the workers that got inside info on who was screwing up were given promotion and job security to not blabb.
As far as those without the 500K to make it to “Wealth Management”, I see how you get treated. Within the company, those not in the “Wealth Management” programme are regarding as being not important. Frequently, you’ll be pushed to the back burner. When you try to be the squeaky wheel, all you will get is a copy and pasted letter from a “director.”
Believe me, I have to sign and mail out about 10 of these a day. The “director” rarely even looks at these.
For those having trouble with TIAA-CREF, I can offer the best advice I can think of.
Treat this issues better than you would treat the maintenance of your auto. You shop around for a mechanic, one you trust, one you believe will not rip apart your car to get more money for repairs, and you educate yourself by getting estimates and other opinions from more than one shop on what you need.
So educate yourself, shop around, and find a company that makes you happy. Find someone that has the know how to fight to get your money away from someone that doesn’t really care about YOUR best interest.
I work for TIAA-CREF, and I don’t invest with them.
Still at TIAA-CREF: Well said!!! I was once one of the first new Wealth Management Advisors and had been with TIAA-CREF for 10+ years. Even those clients that fall for the wealth managment pitch soon learn that once any outside assets have been “recommended” to be invested with TIAA-CREF, they are then dumped onto a service rep and they never hear from the WMA again. The so called advice is geared to have clients consolidate assets with TIAA-CREF and the company would be hard-pressed to prove that all of those transactions were actually in the best interest of the client.
Oh my gosh! I never thought a company would be so difficult to work with. I’ve been given the runaround by this company for the last month and a half. Not nearly as long some of the other victims on this site, but just the same… it’s been like driving through hell. Not one of the customer service reps seems to have a clue yet they are very experienced in side stepping the questions. We’re not talking a large sum of money. WHen I asked to speak to a supervisor, the blatantly told me NO and wouldn’t allow me to speak to a supervisor. I also believe that I’m being blackballed with a caller ID because when I call either the reps play dumb or they are ready to void answering my questions. I just want to end my relationship with the employer and NOW TIAA CREF. I didn’t realize how screwed up this company is. I’m very disappointed with them and I just want my money. This company is clearly in trouble when they can’t seem to process a simple transaction. Stay away!
I currently work for TIAA CREF and am proud of it. we did have problems and we are over coming them. You don’t see stories about us going out of business. We have been around for over 90 yrs and pay out more retirement money than any other company. We don’t work on commision and are AAA rated with over 400 billion in assets. So, when Lehman goes under, Sterns tanked, Merrill needs BOA to buy them out, Fannie and Freddie need Big Brother to help them, AIG in hot water….we are still staying strong… building our client’s retirement.
This site seems to have been taken over by TIAA PR people , employees, and aplologists. The WM people are all about getting your other assets transferred to TIAA. They are all rookies and will leave when they get a little bit of work on their resumes. Getting your money out of them requires a pick axe. They mean well but its a 1960’s company in the 21st century. The system is simply overmatched.
The difficulty in having a conversation with those who are still at TIAA-CREF is the same difficulty in dealing with TIAA-CREF itself. There is so much resistance to being honest about the flaws and serious customer service issues that have been ruining the reputation of TIAA-CREF. Five years ago, TIAA-CREF let go a large number of people that had a substantial amount of knowledge. That lost knowledge and skill base has yet to be recaptured. Why admit that things have being going downhill since when you can bury your head in the sand instead? It’s so easy to say things are so great when you haven’t been around long enough at TIAA-CREF to know how it WAS great. To those people who stand up for TIAA-CREF no matter what, try and put yourself for one moment into the shoes of a client who was royally screwed due to the typical errors that have been occuring since 2003. Again, I was employed with TIAA-CREF for 10+ years in various client facing positions (lastly, as a WMA). I still have my funds with TIAA-CREF because I believe that the investment managament is sound. The service has a long way to go regain client confidence. The bad service is what will drive clients to take their money out, not the investment performance.
To: grassis notalways greener
You must be really new or really blind. The company is going down the drain. Although it may be with quickness of molasses, it’s still happening. Even the head of PR/Advertising openly admitted that he was even made aware that everyday TIAA looses more money than it gains.
The customer complaints you see here are valid, and shouldn’t be brushed aside with a simple statement like, “you don’t see stories about us going out of business.”
WHAT DO YOU THINK LAY-OFFS MEAN?!
And, to say that “we don’t work on commission” isn’t exactly true. The consultants and WM advisors are paid on an even worse scheme than commission, meaning that they have to meet a quota. Forget the idea that if you don’t sell people worthless products you won’t get extra cash that paycheck, instead with TIAA-CREF, if you don’t sell enough over a period of time you loose your job.
Be honest!!
This is what poor performance means for the consultants and advisors.
To add to this, where I work, I get to work with people on both the Asset Management (the people choosing what stocks to invest into) and Client Services (the consults and advisors participants meet with) sides.
Both sides are in trouble. People I’ve spoken to in Asset Management admit that they’re loosing a lot of money, but they will be preforming career suicide if anyone from that department ever came out with a heart and let people know the trouble their futures are really in. Perhaps the dept. should think of changing it’s name to “covering our Asses Management.”
Client Services is struggling to keep selling contract and bring money in, so they tweak the truth to get people signed up, then they blame everyone else when the participant calls the company screaming “Shannigans!”
The grass isn’t greener on the other side if you leave the company, in fact, all the lawns in the neighborhood look pretty scorched.
Also, I don’t have faith in the CEO, but I do have a good idea why he was hired. (Shady government connections from both Ferguson and his wife?)
I’m not really into conspiracy theories, but this is a little too obvious.
His wife served as the SEC Commissioner as the representative on the Financial Stability Forum since its inception in 1999 until January 31st 2008.
But, I guess once again I’m the only one to see a connection in all of this.
Also, am I the only one that finds it a little odd that she was head of the “Financial Stability Forum” of collapsing economy?
If you want to Google her, her name is Annette L. Nazareth.
“Still with TIAA-CREF” HAHAHAH!!
CLUELESS…
TIAA-CREF is one of the most financially sound in the financial services industry. There were layoffs to trim the fat.
First off, learn to spell.. It is “losing money”, not loosing money. Yeah, TIAA has been in the red for a little while.. We are not going anywhere though.. Rest assured.
AAA ratings folks.. From Moody’s and S&P.. It still means something.. Regardless of what some people who know very little say on this blog.
I am in CalStrs and recently enrolled w/ T/C. I’ve read all of the comments about the horrors with T/C and bracing for for trouble in the future. So, I would like to know if your (Rob #67 April 8, 2008) problems were satisfactorily resolved.
For the Greater Good: Sorry to burst it to you, but AAA ratings very little- they are based on past performance and do not necessarily dictate whether or not the company will be able to pay claims in the future. I will remind you of another insurance company that was AAA rated, it is called AIG and it is in financial trouble because it was allowed to keep pennies on reserve for each dollar of claims- which came in two weeks ago with these mortgage backed securities. Also, these mortgage backed securities were also rated AAA and we now see that they were junk . So you and the others can tout AAA, Morningstar ratings, etc- they are all based on the past information and mean nothing to the astute investor.
Still with TIAA-CREF: I agree with you, in that I also have no faith in the new CEO due in part to his performance at Swiss-Re. He is great at cost cutting, but not growth. In regards to the lay-offs, when workers have a “Sword of Damocles” hanging over them is bad for morale.
JayKay: see how it goes and if you are not happy with TIAA-CREF, see if you can 90-24 your money to another company. Read up on a 90-24 transfer and see if you will be able to do it. Also, definitely brace for trouble in the future, especially if you have to call because then you will really experience the incompetence of TIAA-CREF (expect to be re-routed throughout the US to get your question asked).
Lastly, as I reiterate from my previous posts months ago- financially educate yourself! Don’t rely on ratings and free advice is not always the best advice. Read the prospectus (however poorly it is put together) and look at the fund management fees as well as the turnover rate (high turnover rate denotes that the portfolio manager is trading a lot and that cost is transferred to the shareholders). As “Still with TIAA-CREF” previously stated, educate yourself, shop around and then make a choice.
My apologies for my previous post in which I had stated that AIG was AAA- they were actually downgraded in the past to AA, but this was well after the rating agencies knew how much they were involved in mortgage back securities (specifically insuring them against default with credit default swaps). My point is don’t rely too much on credit ratings because there is a lot of controversy surrounding them (especially giving AAA ratings to these MBSs). These rating agencies are third parties that are usually paid for by the businesses that they are rating (therefore a bit subjective). While TIAA-CREF may be able to pay out there claims now, you really don’t know what to expect in the future. Also, while TIAA-CREF has been around for 90 years or so, remember that Lehman Brothers was around for 100+ years and many didn’t think that they would fall. Educate yourselves, shop around and find a place that fits you.
It amazes me of all the gloom and doom and misinformation that is being blogged here.
Joe,
You are wrong and not very astute.. I have been in this business for 15 years and I know a thing or two about financial services. AAA credit ratings have nothing to due with past performance.. You’re confusing these ratings with mutual fund ratings. Where do you get your financial info from? Mad Magazine or National Lampoon? .
First off, Moody’s and S&P are independent rating agencies and cannot be bought off.
AAA ratings for an insurance company are incredibly important. Insurance companies are not FDIC insured. So, financial stability is very important. A company’s rating is a barometer of its ability to pay a claim down the road. A high rating indicates the company has plenty of assets and reserves available to pay claims. AAA is a rating that means that a company is extremely strong financially and has more than enough assets in reserve to pay all claims.
Ratings are typically derived from an evaluation of a company’s balance sheet strength, operating performance, and business profile, among other factors. Some of the most respected ratings agencies are A.M. Best, Moody’s, Standard & Poor’s.
TIAA is only one of three companies I believe that still have AAA ratings. NY Life and Mass Mutual are the others I believe.
TIAA-CREF is not going anywhere folks.. Yeah, there are some problems, and we they are continuing to fix them, but the company has a very bright future especially with its Wealth Management and Brokerage areas.
For the Greater Good: No, I am not confusing it with a mutual fund rating- S&P, Moody’s & Fitch’s do not rate mutual funds (Morningstar does)-they rate the debt securities in the bond funds. Whether it is a debt security or an insurance company, these credit rating agencies are rating whether or not the business will be able to pay (claims or debt obligations).
In regards to TIAA-CREF (and AIG), its rating is based upon whether it will be able to pay out its claims (as you had explained). With a debt security, the rating based on whether or not the business will be able to repay the principle and interest on that debt. So, both involve the ability to pay and are ratings based on that-therefore insurance company ratings and debt security ratings are similar.
As we are seeing with our economic problem, these mortgage backed securities were rated AAA when they were “junk”. The MBSs were not transparent, but rather complex-much like an insurance company’s accounting system. Also, these rating agencies are paid for by the businesses that they are rating. Therefore, these ratings cannot be trusted and it is asinine for one to invest based on ratings or posters stating that their company is AAA rated.
Lastly, these ratings are based on past (and present) information (e.g. the balance sheet is information from previous quarters) – they can only give you a prediction, not a guarantee. While an insurance company may have enough assets to cover their claims at the time when the credit rating agency is doing its analysis, some assets may not be able to get the price that is evaluated (e.g. AIG- we see now that its assets were not as liquid as previously thought).
While you may continue to state that TIAA-CREF is not going anywhere- you are only making a prediction, much like the those previously at Lehman’s. However, risk is a factor that most of us investors take with our money with the hope that there will be a reward in the future.
So I will restate my main point- don’t put too much stock into ratings, but do some research about the company and funds that you wish to invest in before investing. As “Still w/ TIAA-CREF” previously posted, shop around and find a company that will make you happy.
“For the Greater Good” continued: As aforementioned, these ratings are based on a business’ ability to pay- whether it be a CLAIM (as with an insurance companies such as TIAA-CREF, AIG, etc) or a DEBT (such as a bond, MBS, etc). If these ratings were so great and reliable, why would there be a market for insurance against default of the debt securities (called credit default swaps)? If something is AAA rated, there should be no problem or worry of not getting repaid. However, the truth is these ratings are not reliable or guaranteed. Also, their credibility has been questioned in the past few years, especially now after this MBS debacle.
So being that you claim that you have 15 years of experience in the financial services industry, and seem to know very little except how to relay messages usually inputted in marketing materials (“AAA ratings folks”), I suggest that you ask your superiors for retraining in Charlotte (I believe that is where the financial training for TC occurs).
Hi Everyone –
How enlightening this has been. I feel bad for all the employees who have had such terrible experiences. Especially those that uprooted their families only to find no job when they got there.
My husband is currently working there and you are right they have lost their focus and it has become very sales and quota oriented. It has not been a good place for him to hang his hat. The support and processes are terrible and they do not value life outside of work. The expectation is you work all the time, lately we feel like they own him. He loves the client part of his job and works hard, it has just been a very tough road for our family. To make matters worse, the expectations are not clear and constructive feedback is dismissed, instead you are labeled as a complainer. Never mind fixing the problem and getting on with it. They don’t want to hear it.
Prior to working for this company he was a highly valued employee. The company is still around and doing very well. Employees there are still happy, I want him to go back but that means relocation. We are sorry he made the decision to join this firm. Money isn’t everything. Basically, his boss is a robot and it seems that is all they hire lately and all they want you to be. Everyone is just afraid for their jobs all the time.
He doesn’t even know I am posting this and would be very upset if he found out. He has faith in the new CEO, however I think things are getting worse. I keep telling him to find another job but that is something he hasn’t tried to do. Easier said then done in this economy I guess. After all the word at the office is that everyone is replaceable. I think they should begin appreciating their employees and thanking everyone for their efforts. After all, a little thanks goes a long way. He is working a 14 hour day to keep up. Last year he particpated in some kind of survey and was told that the results would be shared. They never were… just like everything else, mgmt doesn’t do what they say. I can tell you from the little time we have to talk, the people that work out in the field offices are not happy.
Wife of a Crefer: My wife was once in your shoes. God bless you for your patience, understanding, and support that you provide to your husband who is under stress. In my most recent position at TIAA I was a Weath Management Advisor. I worked with some people who were in their 30’s taking high blood pressure medication because of the stress. These people were the Cref-For-Life types and feared that there was no life after TIAA-CREF. News Flash: There Is!!!! I’d like to say that things will get better but the reality is that the current atmosphere is one of “what have you done for me lately?”. You meet or exceed your goals one year and you’re ok. Fall short of your goal the next year and then you’re expendable- no matter what. Fortunately, I did see the general direction of the company and made a change that was best for me (and most importantly, my family). I wish you and your husband the best. I wish all of the rank and file TIAA people the best too. The purpose of my posts has been to voice my disappointment in what TIAA-CREF has become since 2003. Obviously, Herb Allison should shoulder the brunt of the heat but the trustees and board members are just as bad. I doubt that Andrew Carnegie be impressed either.
“You meet or exceed your goals one year and you’re ok. Fall short of your goal the next year and then you’re expendable-”
It is difficult for a participant to understand what the goals of a WMA and others employees would be. Could someone give some examples and how they are measured.
Also, understand that there is a bonus system. What does a WMA have to do get a bonus? Similar question for mid and upper management/
The last annual goal that I experienced as a WMA was to bring in new assets in the amount of $12 million (per advisor). New assets included rollovers (retirement), asset transfers (brokerage), life insurance, etc. The bonus for the WMA was based upon meeting this goal and the bonus for the Director and upper mgmt was exponentially larger based upon the performance of the WMAs under his/her supervision. While the advice given is supposed to be unbiased, the WMA is put in a difficult position to meet the goal and keep his/her job. Although the so-called advice is supposedly generated via a software program, each recommendation will indeed involve the “consolidation” of assets with TIAA-CREF. Some advice was excellent and other recommendations were questionable at best. To say that none of the advisors are paid on a commission basis is correct but that doens’t mean that his/her compensation isn’t tied into the sales aspect of the position either. The WMAs that I was priviledged to work with were excellent and honest people. I cannot say the same for our Directors and upper management.
Clearly the WMA’s are instructed to lure higher net worth individuals to tranfer all their holdings to TC. I met with a WMA for a “free” consultation and he couldn’t hand me the tranfer papers fast enough. If you think TC is different than Fidelity or any for profit outfit you are wrong. Non profit these days just means no stockholders . The executives get big bucks and perks no different than than any Wall Street firm. BTW it took them 3 months to get my income on time and in the correct amounts. TC has definitely lost their way. When they started to compete with Wall Street they became the same as WS.
Thank you, LHR74, for explaining the “incentives” in t-c’s “salary plus incentives” compensation system. As a participant, I have been very curious about this. For t-c to claim that its advisors are not paid a commission may be technically correct but certainly dishonest.
Thanks also to Joe for steadfastly debunking the boasted-of AAA ratings. You are, of course, right.
Question for “For the greater good”: Are you, perchance the poster formerly known as “Cref for life”?
Hello,
I would love to work with you regarding your finanical planning and be your trusted advisor. My cell number is 631-662-7886
Thanks,
E. Aris, CFP, MBA
Well, I thought I was ready to retire. I made very clear when I purchased a TIAA contract that I could role over my funds into my vested retirement account with a state government retirement system. I went to do it this week to find out that my TIAA annunity didn’t allow a pay out unless with was over 10 years. Funny, the T/C rep didn’t tell me that, even when I made it very clear I did not plan to annuitize and would be needing to take to money out to role it over. Still, I need to buy back those years to be eligilbe for retirement in my state system. So, I can’t retire, I can’t take out a loan on the money. Not only that, since I worked in two different states that have differing rules. One of my TIAA annuity funds can’t even be directly payed out to me over 10 years. I have to first put the money in an IRA or roll it over into another retirement plan. Then they can give me my money over 10 years (Louisiana).
Is TIAA the only company that creates these hurdles? Is this in the best interest of people in higher education, often changing states? I’m questioning the value of these retirement plans. Yes, they protect our money. They protect it so much, they aren’t going to let us have it at retirement. Maybe it’s time to warn the masses that what we think we are getting at the front end is nothing like it’s going to be at the back end. I fear for younger folks in these hard economic times. Somebody needs to warn them that no sales person really tells all when they are making a sale. Nobody really makes clear the state stipulations on your account either. We are shackled with both sets of rules.
What good is a great and secure return rate on your money, when you can’t get your hands on it?
I too will write my letter to SEC and follow the good suggestions posted on this webpage. What else can we do to spread the word and warn the innocent about what really happens with retirement plans?
It’s too late for me. I hope this will help others. Remember, when starting a new job and being overwhelmed in orientation, the retirement planning people are coming. You think they are helping you. If you want really want to know what is going on, talk to people who have retired recently from your institution. They may have a very different picture of companies to invest with.
Problems with TIAA-CREFwebsite availability Friday, October 10?
I am curious if other people experienced login delays and dropped connections last Friday afternoon. I had no success in making a transaction after multiple tries from roughly 2 pm to 3:45 or so.
I am not getting an explanation from TIAA-CREF.
I had the same problem last Friday, but this one (for a change) may be excusable. The whole world was selling stock and the system was probably overwhelmed.
I’ve been in TIAA CREF since 1977 and never really thought one way or another about it until I approached retirement since the only other option when I entered the system was our state retirement plan which I didn’t find attractive. I still would not go with the state plan, but now that there are other optional plans available I sure wouldn’t go with TIAA CREF. My biggest complaint is the very poor service I have received. I echo many comments above when I say that contact with the wealth management group at TIAA CREF will get you a different person every time. They tell you that you have a “personal advisor”, but he or she changes frequently and is almost impossible to find. It is also evident that the more you have in the account the better your chances of getting some help and they tell you that they will assign you someone to work closely with you – but the catch is you have to have at least $800,000 with them. I missed by about $35,000 and was relegated to the second level. Also, I have been given very different answers to the same question on more than one occasion.
Frankly, I think that TIAA CREF is still rooted in the days when it had no competition, was tax exempt and didn’t have to be able to provide investment advice. Now that it must offer more options for investment to be competitive it doesn’t have the personnel to do the job well. It also doesn’t really perform as well as other options – I put my 403B with another company and it out-performed CREF and also didn’t take as bad a hit this past week. The real fun was rolling over my CREF to this other financial institution. It only took 8 phone calls over two weeks to get the right forms (which, strange to say, are not available on the web). However, at the end of it I did get the rollover. Because of the nature of our plan agreement TIAA can’t be moved and only 50% of the total TIAA CREF could be moved.
In response to the last comment (#163), I wish to say that my Wife and I have also been going through hell trying to get our funds moved into another company. We are simply trying to move our T-C money market funds into an “approved” 403b account at Vanguard.
After weeks of phone calls, we are no closer now than we were before we started. The current roadblock is getting T-C to send the proper form to allow the transfer of assets. They claim that it cannot be e-mailed, and is not available on the website as this is not considered a rollover. It is a simple asset transfer to another plan of the same type (403b).
I have also had T-C reps contradict each other as to whether or not it can be faxed. Regardless, I have had one rep who “put in” a request that it be faxed to me and of course several phone calls later I still have not recieved a fax.
The level of incompetence is unsurpassed. If anyone knows how to get the form out of them I would really appreciate the info.
We have been with Tiaa-Cref for over 20 years. My observations have been that when a company reaches the point where customer service is allowed to decay to low levels for an extended period of time, they ultimately (regardless of ratings) do not survive. When we started this process, our intentions were to simply move a portion of our current assets over to Vanguard, and keep all future paycheck contributions directed to T-C so we would have accounts at both companies. We are now going to get everything out of T-C and close the account as soon as possible.
In all fairness, I just retrieved my mail and the forms are here!!!!!!!!!
Joe… I got news for you.. I forgot more than you know about this industry.. And for your information, TIAA had absolutely no exposure to the subprime crisis. Again, talking with you is like beating the crap out of a dead horse. There are only 3 insurance companies in the US that have AAA ratings. Do you know how hard it is to obtain a AAA rating? AIG at it’s height never had a AAA rating and we now see why.. Even some respected insurance companies like Jackson National and Met Life et al, can’t sniff AAA ratings..
And if you say that ratings mean nothing in the insurance industry, than we all better take our monies out and stuff our mattresses. Remember, no FDIC in the insurance industry, so this is all you have to go by.
I work in this industry. And I have done so for a long time. Remember I know more than you SIR.
No offense “For The Greater Good” but you do TIAA-CREF a dis-service acting in that manner. I don’t care how long you have worked in the industry, it is no excuse to treat clients… whether potential or exiting that way. Learn some respect for the people who ultimately fund your paycheck. It’s financial jerks like you that give the entire industry a bad name.
“For the greater good” continues to illustrate Bertrand Russell’s dictum that “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt.” If T-C can’t find a more knowlegeable and less obnoxious shill than this, the company is in even worse shape than I thought.
For the Greater Good: With every post you reveal how little you know about the field that you worked in for 15 years. It is obvious that you only know how to read and relay marketing messages. To reiterate my previous suggestion-either go back for training in Charlotte or take some economics, business or finance courses (from my knowledge, TIAA-CREF offers tuition reimbursement or some such plan).
It seems that you still don’t understand how these ratings work, so I will succinctly restate with the hope that something sinks in. These ratings, whether it is for a debt security or a claim, are rating the ability of a company to pay its obligations (the premise is the same). These ratings are unreliable and not guaranteed, especially after our current financial crisis, in which these mortgage backed securities were rated AAA (when they should’ve been rated “junk”). If these ratings were so reliable, there would be little or no market for “credit default swaps” (insurance for the debt securities) and we wouldn’t be in our current financial mess.
While you are correct that there is no FDIC insurance in investments within a brokerage or insurance company, you are (ONCE AGAIN) incorrect that these ratings are the only thing to go on. One must do his/her own research and analysis of the company and its funds-much like one researches individual stocks. If you do rely on these ratings, instead of performing your own due diligence, then you might as well put your money under your mattress.
I don’t know what rock you crawled out from under if you think TIAA-CREF had no exposure to the sub-prime crisis, which eventually led to this financial mess. I suggest that you read up on our current economic state and take a look at the returns of TC funds (as well as the turnover rates at the end of the year-which is another expense passed off to the investors and one that will lower the ROI)
Do No Good: you are correct that “For the Greater Good’s” posts do a disservice to the company because the more nonsense that he posts, the less credibility myself and others have of the financial acumen of the company, as he is a reflection of the company. However, I do want to commend TC for finally attempting to improve customer service by allowing a caller to bypass the switchboard operator and input an extension, thus reaching one’s party quicker (although you usually get voicemail, but it’s a start).
Frank: Love the quote and I agree with your assumption that “Cref for Life” and “For the Greater Good” are the same.
Firstly, I just wanted to apologize to all posters and readers for my extensive posts condemning these credit ratings and for going a bit off topic with my feud with “Cref for Life” or “For the Greater Good” (or whatever he wants to be called). However, for those who are interested, these credit rating agencies were scrutinized today by the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee. Although they mainly discussed and questioned the AAA ratings of these mortgage backed securities, one could get the idea of how these agencies operate and therefore make his or her own conclusions about the ratings.
In my opinion, these ratings are dubious and are no substitute for one’s own due diligence. Although I didn’t get to see all of the hearing, Representative Elijah Cummings made a great analogy in reference to the conflict of interest with these credit rating agencies (they are paid for by the company that they rate) – to paraphrase: ‘It is like a seller of a house hiring & paying for the inspector, instead of the buyer’.
To Cref for Life/For the Greater Good or whatever you want to be called: In reference to your denial of my previous comment that these ratings are based on past information: at today’s hearing, Fitch’s Stephen Joynt stated “to win back investor confidence, ratings must be more predictive and must tell the market about what might happen, instead of what happened yesterday”-therefore, bolstering the fact that the financial model of these ratings are mainly based on historical data.
Also in response to your comment that AIG was never AAA rated even at its height- wrong again! Deven Sharma of S&P stated today that AIG was AAA rated 2 years ago when questioned by Representative Speier on how AIG was AA rated (still investment grade) 2 days before being on the verge of bankruptcy. In case you don’t believe the words of S&P President, an “Insurance Journal” article dated March 25, 2003 is titled: “S&P Affirms AIG’s ‘AAA’ ratings” and it continues to state that “the outlook of all of the these companies (AIG and it’s subsidiaries) is stable”. I guess that they never thought about the fact that AIG was only keeping pennies in reserve for every dollar of claim with the bond insurance (credit default swaps) it sold and never thought that the claims would come in a much as they did when these MBSs defaulted last month. It’s time for you to go back to school and learn the world of finance, being that you supposedly worked in this area for 15 years and know very little except how to relay marketing messages.
To MIA718 (and anyone else who is having problems getting a cash out):
I tried to cash out on September 28th and was told that, because I moved to a different state, that I would have to wait two weeks for my check to be sent out. Okay, I was fine with that. HOWEVER, when they did supposedly send it, they mailed it to my old address. On October 14th, I called just to make sure it was sent and I was given this information.
THEN, I was told that a person would be put on my case, and that the case would be expedited. I was also told that the person would call me – well, she did. FIVE DAYS LATER. She assured me in her message (on October 21st) that the check was in the mail, and would arrive in 3-5 days. Um. It’s now NINE DAYS later and nothing has arrived. So, I call an inept customer representative person and he told me that all he could do was put THE SAME PERSON on my case and that she would be calling me within 72 hours. Yeah, we’ll see about that.
Much like many Americans, I’m not working and really need MY money. I’m sorry that I told my friends to start up retirement accounts with this company. I’ll never, ever do that, again.
As a follow-up to my last post, I have been trying to get a manager on the line all morning. It just doesn’t happen. The customer service representative keeps telling me that all he can do is email the managerial department. Essentially, I am at the mercy of a department that will not seem to call me back. I have the person’s phone number who is working on my case and she never answers her phone, and will not call me back. Does anyone have ANY suggestions on how I can talk to a person, not an unresponsive robot?
Call 800-842-2733 and asked to be connected to one of the senior executives you can find on the website. There are several who have the word customer or service in their titles. Threaten to take your complaint to the SEC. Don’t get off the phone until you speak to someone.
I tried getting someone on the phone for twenty minutes, telling the customer service person that I wasn’t going to get off of the phone until I spoke to a manager. He couldn’t transfer me to ANYONE, or give me a direct phone number to ANY other department. The best he could do, he said, is to email his manager, who would then get back to me 24-48 hours later.
By the way, the count is now 13 days beyond the day when they (supposedly) mailed out my check. When a manager finally did call me on Friday (after I lambasted her phone line), she admitted that it was a possibility that the check didn’t leave the building when she told me that it did, and that it could have been five or so days after that date. This is what they call expedited service, after I’ve already struggled through one of their screw-ups? I’ll be surprised if I ever really see that check in my mailbox, and now I am insisting that they direct deposit it into my bank account, which is what they should have offered in the first place. I found out that they do this on accident, when a customer service person blurted out that they sometimes do that.
I’m guessing that my experience probably mirrors the experience of more than one person, based on their responses and behavior. A friend of mine who works in the financial industry told me on Saturday that he doubts that they have sent it, and that they are holding onto the money as long as they can. He also told me that companies will often string people along, just so they can squeeze a little more interest out of it. This from an insider, folks, it wasn’t me who said it.
For the Greater Good:
I’d like to see how you would respond to a situation where your money was tied up for weeks, and possibly months. You really reiterate the nature of the company by bullying people on this board.
i would like to with deaw hardship lone
who am i supose to talk too
To Former-TIAA CREF Employee:
Thank you for that 1-800 number. The person that I got through to via this route has been the most helpful person that I have talked to, so far. They sent my check out on Friday via overnight express, but the person who was “taking care” of my account never called me to let me know. I had an appointment to speak with her on the phone early this morning and, guess what, she never called me.
I’m definitely filing a complaint with TC and the SEC.
I believe you would have more success filing your complaint with the New York State Insurance Department, instructions are at the website http://www.ins.state.ny.us/complhow.htm . TIAA/CREF is registered with this department as are all of their various insurance products, both fixed and variable. The SEC is a good route, but they have their hands full with broker and advisor complaints. I would also register your complaints with your employer/plan sponsor and ask for their involvement on your behalf. Make sure all complaints are in writing as they are not considered complaints under SEC and FINRA laws unless they are. If your plan is an ERISA plan, you may have remedies through that avenue as plan administration requirements, etc., under ERISA are very clearly explained and laid out. Make sure you get “as of” trades so that the transactions happen as of the date you initiated the request.
Sorry to hear about all the problems, but not surprised. TIAA/CREF has become complacent over the years and until they get over their entitlement attitude (i.e. they are entitled to your business, they don’t have to earn the right to serve you), they won’t get fixed. They are losing clients (at the institutional level), and their demographics are bad. If your average customer is over 50 years old and begins installment retirement payments, and you are losing future contributions from existing clients because you’re being replaced by new providers, you have a long term financial problem. The new IRS 403(b) regulations will result in the elimination of multiple vendor programs, and plan sponsors will select one provider going forward for all faculty and staff contributions after 1/1/09 and into 2009 & beyond to simplify compliance. Will that provider be TIAA/CREF? We’ll see, but early returns don’t look good.
You are right to demand better from your provider–you deserve that and if they don’t deliver, to the extent you can, move to another provider via contract exchange (which replaces the old 90-24 transfers under the new regs). It will take time on the Traditional Annuity, but there are companies out there that value your business.
Interested Bystander:
Thank you for your insight, I will definitely take it to heart.
I noticed a write up that indicates TIAA-CREF is planning to go for-profit:
“A member asked whether TIAA-CREF’s restructuring strategy includes plans to move to a for-profit platform. Yes, stated Mr. Wilcox.”
Ref: http://www1.umn.edu/usenate/retirement/05-11-07.html
Note the date of the meeting: November 2005
I am interested in knowing if anyone else has had my experience with the survivor benefits section of TIAA CREF. They have under-reported the funds owed to the beneficiaries and the estate by tens of thousands of dollars. If you are a beneficiary of a TIAA-CREF retirement account for a deceased person, watch out and check numbers for yourself. Don’t rely on them calculating things correctly.
I have never seen more whining since my nursing beagle got locked out from her puppies by accident!
TIAA-CREF pays out more income second only to Social Security! They converted an old and decaying computer platform while remaining open for business.
Any issues they have are surely not due to trying to “take you to the cleaners!” Try to run a non profit in a for profit world! You whiners should all take your money to AIG, Lehman, Merrill and WM
Devote some of your energy to exploring what little exposure they have to subprime mortgage and how much expsosure they had to Enron when companies like Merrill we falling over themselves to givce money to the big E Enron!
To: Wiley Coyoye (sic):
I hope your name, however misspelled, does not prove to be more appropriate than you intended. The original Wile E. Coyote, you will recall, used to run off cliffs and remain suspended confidently in midair until he came to realize there was nothing solid underfoot. Let’s all hope that your confidence in TIAA’s investments is not similarly misplaced.
Incidentally, are you the same person who used to comment as “cref for life” and/or “for the greater good”? If so welcome back! We’ve missed your spewing of pointless invective in response to substantive issues.
Hey Wiley,
I would move my money in a flash as soon as your company (TIAA CREF) coughs up the money it stole.
I’ve worked for TIAA for over twelve years. One word comes to mind thinking about managements capability – CHAOS. I’ve never seen a place so mismanaged and I’ve never seen management so over paid. Even after they implemented a new computer platform this company is still 20 years behind the times. In our department the new computer system has wrecked havoc. One day we’re told to do something one way then the next day we’re told another way. Sometimes things change by the hour. One payment department is easily one month behind from the new computer system. Here’s a typical example of clueless management. They open up a new processing center outside of Dallas. They spend all kinds of money and time training people, setting up a computer systems and getting up to speed. Then within a year they close the center and lay everyone off. Starting phone reps use to make a great salary but not any more. CEO Ferguson wants to find the cheapest labor on the street to hire for new phone reps and to work at TIAA. This equates to people who don’t know what they’re doing and don’t stay around very long. Now after 1000’s of layoffs he wants some of the remaining employees to “reapply” for their jobs. People have to resubmit their resumes and interview for the same jobs they have had for years. If they’re offered their job back it’s at a lower pay rate. Moral was already low now it’s rock bottom. My advice if you have money at TIAA is to get it out, if you can, and if you have money to invest stay away. By the way I can insure you Ferguson isn’t giving up any of his bonus or pay while he lays people off and cuts their wages.
My Father died in June. Thankfully before he passed he sat with us and explained his estate and confirmed that our TIAA-CREF beneficiary information. We all made a plan that I would be his personal representative. Soon after his passing I received the letters from the court and notified TIAA-CREF of his passing. They immediately cut off all account access and account information has never been seen since. Here is where our Hell began. They took weeks to send out my Beneficiary packet and repeatedly sent it to wrong addresses. Where did they mail my personal information? Once the packet arrived (fourth attempt), I filled out and returned all required paperwork. There was no communication to me whatsoever. I always had to call and begin my inquiry with a 30 minute wait while the phone rep puts me on hold. All of the phone calls I made lasted 2+ hours (Mostly me being put on hold while they try to figure something out) and in the end, no information was available, but they logged the call and would have a Manager call me back within 24hrs (Never happened). In October they told me they received the paperwork, everything is in order, but it was still in process. It is now the end of November and my last communication with them is that they can’t find my contracts? They refuse to put me through to a Manager, never follow up on promised return phone calls and readily acknowledge that they screwed up my account. A cannot get a balance and they said they don’t know where the $ is? The only saving grace is that my father gave me his June statement listing his TIAA-CREF assets. My situation is clean and simple. TIAA CREF has taken my father’s money and they are telling me that they don’t know where it is? This has been going on since JUNE, JULY, AUGUST, SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, ….. I don’t know what to do? Are there any lawyers out there interested?
Dear Beyond Belief,
I was just reading about your frustrations with this organization. Any resolution? I am finding myself in a situation with them and am feeling at a loss. I am 44 and my husband was 43 when he died last year. It would be nice to hear from you.
Hello Beyond Belief
I suggest that you first call the US Department of Labor and ask to talk to an agent about problem with retirement account. Don’t trust any number that TIAA CREF gives you. Verify everything. You can get the historical values of the TIAA-CREF funds at the time of passing of your dad through online financial web sites. I find it amazing that TIAA-CREF can get away with these things in this day and age.
Good luck.
Beyond Belief,
Here are 2 things you should do:
1. Get in touch with the employer(s) that contributed to TIAA on your father’s behalf. contact the college or university Business Officer.
2. Go to the TIAA-CREF website and select one of the senior managers, call 1-800-842-2733 and ask for that individual. Do not get off the phone until you are connected. I suggest the EVP VanDolsen.
First, I’m sorry to hear that you are going through this at such a hard time in your life. My case wasn’t nearly as consuming as yours, but I know the frustration. I suggest listening to Former TIAA-CREF employee’s advice, as that is what FINALLY got me through my nightmare.
“Call 800-842-2733 and asked to be connected to one of the senior executives you can find on the website. There are several who have the word customer or service in their titles. Threaten to take your complaint to the SEC. Don’t get off the phone until you speak to someone.”
Do this, it works.
All, thanks for the advice. This really is as outrageous as it sounds.
I will contact the following below. Any additional ideas will be appreciated.
1. I will E-Mail my story to every business news outlet that I can identify.
2. Contact the US Department of Labor and ask to talk to an agent.
3. Contact the University of Alaska that contributed to TIAA on my father’s behalf.
4. Contact the Alaska Governors office.
5. Contact California Governors office.
6. Go to the TIAA-CREF website and select one of the senior managers, call 1-800-842-2733 and ask for that individual. Not get off the phone until I am connected. Maybe EVP VanDolsen ? or senior executive on the website with the word customer or service in their titles
7. File a complaint with the New York State Insurance Department, instructions are at the website http://www.ins.state.ny.us/complhow.htm
8. E-Mail the TC Board, trustees@tiaa-cref.org, via their website.
9. File a complaint against TIAA-CREF with the SEC at the following link: http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml.
10. Google every blog I can find and communicate this story to the whole world.
Hello Beyond Belief,
I had contacted the SEC, but since this involves a retirement account, the appropriate agency is the US Department of Labor. I contacted them regarding my case. Be prepared to provide detailed information, ideally in writing. They contacted TIAA -CREF. They assured me that a senior TIAA-CREF official will handle and reply. It’s been 2-3 weeks, but no reply yet. If I don’t hear this week, I’ll call the US DOL again. If that does not work, legal is the only recourse left.
You might see if the Probate Judge overseeing your Father’s estate would issue an order to TIAA-CREF requiring them to present the account information to the court.
Beyond Belief:
Maybe a sit-in at a branch office – accompanied, of course, by the news media?
Old Dog,
You are right I will also call them on Monday, Alaska probate court is very people friendly.
My TIAA Traditional TPA has been royally screwed up. I have been very ill and I can only pursue them on a day when I am feeling good. I can not get any response from TC regarding what they are paying me. I noticed the amount they were to pay me decreased by $16,000 per year in 2007. I started to track the account through statements and realized something was very wrong. Too date, repeated calls have resulted in a letter telling me I had no money in that contract that paid the $16,000. I called in response to the letter and was told it was send to me in error. Of course, there was no restoration of the $16,000. I asked for a complete accounting of what was in the account and what was paid to me. Then, I received a letter, which was pure gibberish, and my CPA could make no sense of it. I am frustrated, angry, and at a loss as to how to proceed.
When I tried to removed my CREF money, ultimately, I had to hire an attorney to accomplish that. Tons of paper and three years later, we had the money.
Is there someone out there who can tell me what words I can use to have TC explain what they have done with my TPA? What questions can I ask them? Because I have learned if you do not know the question, you will not get an answer. My account numbers have changed so much that tracking what is going on from account to account has been massive undertaking. TC tells me they can not provide me with a computer printout for the TPA since it started. Could this possibly be true?
I’ve advised others to do this and it seems to work: Check the TIAA-CREF executives on their website. Call 1-800-842-2733 and ask for one of those execs (preferably one with “Service” in their title) and don’t get off the phone until you are connected. Threaten to call the TIAA-CREF Trustees, the SEC or NY Insurance Department until you are satisfied.
After reading all that, I am scared and I am seriously thinking about moving all my retirement money from T-C to a company like Vanguard. If some of you have done that, can you share your experience? Thanks.
The expenses at CREF have grown so much over the last few years that considering a move to a true low-cost competitor, like Vanguard, merits serious consideration, not only for the fees, but for access to a better run organization with tighter processing, leaner management, and broader investment selections. I have spent several years at both companies, CREF being most recent.
I just walked my father through this process with TIAA-CREF. He has worked for the University of Maryland system for over 25 years and had all his retirement with TIAA-CREF. While he still believes his retirement dollars are safe he had questions regarding his plan. He is approaching retirement age and couldn’t get any answers from TIAA-CREF regarding his current investments, or how those investments would be allocated when he does retire. He turned to me since I am a financial advisor at Morgan Stanley. He was so frustrated with the customer service he wanted to move the money out of the plan into an individual IRA. He was told he could not take he money out of the plan unless he retired or was terminated, but he still received no answers from TIAA-CREF related to how his plan will be allocated when he retires. I went through his documents and discovered that his plan would be distributed over 10 year after he initiates the payments in retirement. He was unaware of this and decided he would attempt to roll the entire plan into an IRA when he does retire. I hope he doesn’t have the same problems other like you have had. If I can be of any help you can reply here and I can attempt to help you as well.
If your father has been contributing to T/C for 25 years, I find it unusual that he would have so little understanding of how his retirement program operates. At my institution T/C representatives held almost annual seminars and individual meetings with faculty to explain all the programs. Also, the personnel departments at most universities usually have someone who specializes in T/C matters.
If your father can get onto his computer while on the phone with a T/C rep, they will walk him through their T/C website (www.tiaa-cref.org) where he can get information about his account and get infomation and/or order publications about T/C programs and investments.
If he has a mid 6 figure account with T/C, he can request having a WMA assigned to him, who would have more knowledge about his particular needs, than the average phone rep he might encounter.
There also are some discussion sites where he can ask questions about T/C in particular and other investment and retirement issues.
The first would be the TIAA-CREF Funds forum at the morningstar site where participants discuss T/C issues. (http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/forums/100000044/ShowForum.aspx)
Another valuable site would be that of the Bogleheads at http://www.bogleheads.org. Would especially recommend that he look at their listings of investment and retirement publications.
To BH,
Not all institutions are serviced on an yearly basis. Some are lucky to get a rep every few years.
Also, since when did it become the client’s job to have a deep understand of the inner workings of TIAA-CREF?
People that have been employees for 25+ years at TIAA have been given the run around before when it comes to calling the customer service lines.
And, while you may have the assumption that most institutions have someone that specializes in T/C issues, you’d be suprised as to how many have no clue what they are doing when dealing with T/C.
As far as getting a WMA account, it is really worthless and the WMA is mostly calling once a year to try to sell more products. A lot of people on here have even complained about that system of customer service.
Frankly, I’m an employee and I will NEVER invest with T/C because I’ve watched them screw over little old ladies waiting to pay for medication, the children of T/C holders when their parents have passed, and I’ve seen those “concerned” consultants come out of a meeting with someone in tears just to laugh about how ridiculous their whining 1 on 1 client was.
Sadly, I’m not talking about an isolated incident or just one consultant.
This company is really sad, and over the last few weeks I’ve been having to have a real battle with my conscious over if I should stay here with an over inflated salary to keep quite about everything I’ve seen, or if I should just move on to another industry all together where I don’t have to feel like I’m lying ever time I say, “the check is in the mail.”
Sorry to hear about the unpleasant situation at T/C. Is this prevalent throughout T/C or just in the customer service areas,,,,, and how long has this climate existed?
Prior to the 90s it was not difficult, nor even necessary, for clients to understand the workings of TIAA-CREF. Participants only had to decide how to allocate their contributions between CREF Stock and the Traditional Account, and, since you could not withdraw any funds, to select an annuity pay-out program upon retirement.
I’m interested in how much of the present problems and costs at T/C could be attributed to the introduction of all these new funds, the establishment of a “cash-out” procedure, etc.
Are there any “old timers” (20+ years) left that could describe the costs and negative impacts on T/C and participants, due to these changes. The old system worked quite well. To paraphrase… the enemy of a good program is the search for a perfect program.
People do not want more options for them to ask questions. They want solutions. My father wokred with a WMA, and found that service more frustrating than the call center. He felt the service was established soley to push product to higher net worth individuals and not give him answers to his questions. The fact remains TIAA-CREF takes these employees retirement contributions, provides them a few, poor performing investment options and tops that off with poor customer service. That fact is evident by these client and startling employee postings. TIAA-CREF can get away with this becuase the employee’s TIAA-CREF retirement plan is not portable. There is NO incentive for TIAA-CREF to provide even basic customer service since there is no option to roll the money into an IRA unless the employee retires or is terminated. It was clear from my father experience that his only option will be to roll the entire plan out as soon as he retires. An IRA will provide him more investment options and an easier process to have the assets transfer to beneficaries which seems to be a huge issue based on these postings.
Michael, be sure to inquire specifically about any money your father may have in the “TIAA Traditional” guaranteed fund. If more than $2000, it’s very unlikely that he will be able to roll that part into an IRA, except in ten annual installments. Beware. Some phone reps behave as if “everyone knows” that TIAA Traditional is an annuity and not accessible as a lump sum, even after retirement. Others will tell you that you can roll it over in a lump sum when that is not the case. I’d have been totally out of TIAA-CREF years ago if it hadn’t been for that fund.
I am a former WM Advisor and I can honestly say that the “brilliant” series of restructuring took a page from wall street. Give the do nothing and know-nothing execs all the money, get rid of the intelligent employees that had a decent pay, and replace them with lower paid less knowledgable (due to lack of T-C experience) employees. In the end, the client gets the shaft . The WM Group was established under the false premise of unbiased advice while it is actually biased to ALWAYS recommend consolidating assets with TIAA-CREF regardless of the best interest of the client. How can any advice be unbiased when the WMAs have a large part of their compensation based upon meeting their goal of bringing in new assets? (which goes up each calendar year) I’m sure that little tidbit is left out when working with clients by pushing the B-S line of “I’m not working on commission”. Their customer service stinks because they got rid of 99% of the employees who know the ins and outs of how to get things done FOR the client. Now the client comes second, or maybe third, depending on which department you are working with. DO NOT move any funds in excess of $2,000 into TIAA Traditional within a RA or GRA contract. The funds can only be removed in TEN installments over ten years, no compromise unless you annuitize or receive interest on the remaining balance. BEWARE! That feature is an asset retention tool in itself.
Just a little hint for those of you trying to contact someone higher up. Every e-mail at T/C is formatted the same way. The first initial plus the last name @ tiaa-cref.org. So for example John Doe would be JDoe@tiaa-cref.org – There is no DOT in the name like many business addresses.
LHR74 mentioned “DO NOT move any funds in excess of $2,000 into TIAA Tradtional within a RA or GRA contract. The funds can only be removed int TEN installments over ten years, no compromise unless you annutize or receive interest on the remaining balance.
I am one of those folks who was told only about the ten year payout. Can you give more information about the “or receive interest on the remaining balance.” I was given no information about that when I talked to several “T/C call center reps.”
I think TC is awful but some people seem clueless too. How can you not have heard of about Interest Only or 10 Year payout, Due you read nothing sent to you by TC? Clueless people deserve what they get.
I was a representaive there for about a year in 2006-2007. I could not take it any more. Their systems are the problem. Herb Allison really messed things up.
The phone reps are powerless to actually get anything done. They just put in the request. They can’t actually FIX it for you… although they wish they could.
Lots of stories, but I remember a fellow that moved from Germany back to the US several years before. Even though he changed his address many times and requested money be wired to his back for his annual payments, TIAA had sent checks to his old address (which no longer exists) in Germany. It happened for three years after he was in the US. He and the phone reps did everything right. Perfect. And yet the checks still went to Germany every year.
I’ve had people cry on phone, curse at me, everything. I can understand the frustration.
I couldn’t take it anymore and after a year, I walked out and never went back. The morale was horrible.
It is sad that people do not know about the 10-year payment. But there is a reason why it’s locked up. It is guaranteed to NEVER LOSE VALUE.
Currently, it is paying 4.5%and had a 5.25% return for 2008. Name anything else in your portfolio that had a 5.25% return for 2008.
They need to be more clear on the lockup, and clients need to actually read what they are getting into. When I worked there, I really wished that TIAA would warn people about it more. Then again, the word “annuity” should be a red flag. This isn’t a mutual fund!
I had one lady that when she initially signed up, she requested her $ be split into several funds, but the totals did not add up. When that happens, it defaults to the money market fund.
This lady never read anything TC sent her over 28 years. So, for 28 years all of her retirement savings was going into a money market.
She had $230,000, but would have had over $800,000 if the initial mistake was not made.
This is the problem with TC. Someone should have called her to let her know at the beginning. They didn’t. She’s out several hundred grand. Then again, she never once looked? Ever?
To Jan: The TIAA-CREf term is the Interest Only Option.
Instead of receiving the balance via a ten year payout or an irrevocable option such as a lifetime annuity, you should be able to keep the balance in place and receive the interest generated by your balance on a monthly basis. If my memory serves me, the minimum age to initiate the interest is age 55 and you must have terminated from employment. You must receive interest for at least 12 months before you can change to another option such as the ten year payout or an annuity (i.e. anytime from month 13 onward the conversion can be made). Since the interest payments are eligible to be rolled over to an IRA, a minimum of 20% would have to be withheld for federal income taxes. If you want to withhold less than 20% for federal income taxes, you should have the interest payments rolled into an IRA (open one if you do not already have one) an the have the payment immediately taken out of the IRA. That way, you can determine the amount of taxes, if any, you would like to withhold. This can be a great option to generate income for you without locking you into an irrevocable situation, assuming the interest being generated is sufficient. In addition, the balance is preserved and passed on to your beneficiaries in full if you were to die while receiving interest-only payments. Sorry that my response is long-winded but I hope it helps.
If the SEC was so lax in their oversight of the Wall Street firms and other crooks, I am sceptical about what enforcement actions they will take against the inept TIAA-CREF. On the other hand, persistence does pay off and with the current scrutiny of the SEC they may take greater action against TIAA-CREF than they had in the past. If you are experiencing service issues you should be sure to document as much as possible- especially if accumulation transfers and/or payments were delayed. This way, investment losses and/or delayed payment interest can be calculated for you.
Okay, I am three years into a TIAA-CREF account at my new school, and this board – as well as a few other sources – have me concerned. I moved from a public school to a private school and switched from Lincoln Financial to TIAA-CREF, mostly because I hated the high fees at Lincoln. I’m still not sure that was the best move, but as an educator with a two year old daughter there are limits to how much research I can do on a subject I’m only modestly capable of understanding.
Can anyone link me to a site where I can find some good, objective comparisons between companies like TIAA-CREF and Lincoln Financial? I’ve been googling and web-searching for an hour and my mind is numb with all the fiscal language. I think I’d have an easier time speaking the tongue of Mordor. =P
*sighs*
And the tongue of mordor wouldn’t lie to you as well as the folks at TIAA Cref. Put your money somewhere else–anywhere else! I’ve never in my life been so poorly treated by a company that professes to be looking out for my welfare. I’ve had better customer service at McDonald’s!
I was in the same position, my choices were between tiaa, vanguard, and AIG or all three (can split my contributions). Well, I didn’t choose AIG :-)
When I came across this blog, I was concerned at first about the folks issues with tiaa but since most people have a problem when it comes to taking money and I am more interested in saving money, I am not too concerned, I have too many years to go b/f I can think of retiring. The information provided here made me look more at that traditional account and my employer money goes into what they call a retirement annuity that will restrict the payment options from tradition to ten years, interest only or lifetime income but my contributions can go into a supplemental account that doesn’t restrict the distribution options but I get a lower interest rate.
I eventually found http://www.bogleheads.org, you can ask a lot of questions and get great responses, it is run by people who are big fans of vanguard but they also have great tips on tiaa investment options and other companies. I choose to split my money b/t tiaa and vanguard. I like tiaa’s real estate and social choice and traditional and vanguards indexed funds. I found the people I spoke with at both vanguard and tiaa to be helpful and courteous especially with how crazy the market has been.
Thanks folks for your cautionary tales – I hope your issues get resolved soon. I don’t know how people lived w/o the internet!
I requested by FAX a one-time withdrawal from my TIAA Traditional account . This was received by TIAA on 3 Feb 2009. On 4 Feb they sent the wire incorrectly and it was returned on 5 Feb.
The wire was to be sent to Merrill Lynch and forwarded to my account at a Merrill Lynch branch. I have used this route for five years to wire funds. The problem seemed to be that TIAA has never done a two step transfer, so they put all the numbers together in one number, which was rejected by the Merrill Lynch computer.
On 11 February an employee of my bank phoned the supervisor in charge of my transfer and explained to him how to do it properly. As of today, 17 Feb. no wire has been sent. They are still processing the wire transfer. The 32K dollars were taken from my account on 4 Feb and has been “processed” since then.
When I was let go by my employer under very shady circumstances I tried to withdraw my investments from TIAA CREFF. I found I had to jump through so many hurdles including having to communicate with my employer over issues like the date I was fired etc. Finally after several months of contact (5 months) I finally was able to collect my investment except for the TIAA Traditional. I tried to collect that one too, but after they sent me seven pages of forms that needed to be filled out that also required to deal with my former employer who dragged their feet almost as bad as CREFF I gave up and figured I’d never see that money again. I admit I should have complained to some government agency but that’s too much fun for me, now after four years of calling I’m trying again. I’ll let you know how this goes. Be aware that if you need your money out of them be ready to jump through hoops of fire…..Oh by the way you cannot speak to the actual person that handles your account you must speak to an advisor that each time has to be brought up to speed……ridiculous.
Barton- once you have received the paperwork for withdrawal/rollover, complete all of the personal and withdrawal info. You can send it back without employer verification of termination date because the processing area normally will handle that once they get your forms and that section is left blank. While you were probably not told that by a rep at TIAA-CREF, that is what happens behind the scene in the processing areas. Good luck.
I’m not a big fan of the current management at TIAA-CREF but it is important to state that they have done pretty well on the investment side, particularly with regard to the TIAA investments. One reason is that much of the money invested by the institutions and customers is “locked up” for a minimum of 10 years. Over the years, this has provided a significant advantage, providing better returns from more stable investments. The institutions know this. The fact that the money can’t be withdrawn in a lump sum is on the applications signed by the customers and is spelled out clearly in enrollment material. Many employers offer alternative investments…like CREF…that can be cashed out. This has always been controversial as the funds contributed by employers are meant to provide retirement income.
That said, there is no excuse for the poor service that many people seem to be receiving. Unfortunately, I am one of them. Even former employees are not immune. It is very disheartening. Let’s hope that the new CEO who replaced Allison will foster change.
When I check out annuities at various web sites, the payouts are higher than TIAA. If I take a 20 year gaurantee the payout is 6.99% vs only 6.29 per TIAA. Am I missing something? The
” commercial” offerings are better than TIAA. I hope I am missing something. Is there an TIAA enployee or exemployee who can explain this?
It has taken me more than THREE YEARS to dissolve my retirement at TIAA Cref. Over that span of time they have made a bundle of money from my account and I have now lost a bundle. As of today I have submitted the same forms to the same people six times since January 2009, have been told different information–seriously different information–by every single person at TIAA Cref every time I have called them, and finally have had to threaten them with a lawsuit and an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education to get some resolution. These people are shameless, they are liars, and they are stealing our money. I still don’t have my funds but I’ve given them 48 hours and then I turn a large contingent of Irish solicitors lose on them and I start writing editorials.
For those of you still entertaining the so-called unbiased advice from the TIAA-CREF Wealth Management Group, keep in mind that the INDIVIDUAL asset growth goals for each wealth management advisor in 2009 is $50 million of new assets. Beware of the advice being presented by the TIAA-CREF software and keep in mind that the goal is lingering over each WMAs head. The overall compensation of a WMA is tied significantly to meeting and/or exceeding that goal so the line about being non-commissioned is true but doesn’t give the whole picture.
You say that “the INDIVIDUAL asset growth goals for each wealth management advisor in 2009 is $50 million of new assets”.
It is confusing to me just how a WMA can go about obtaining this goal. Could you give some examples?
My impression is that a WMA only comes into contact with a participant who already has a substantial investment in TIAA, and that although the WMA might be able to talk a participant out of transferring funds out of TIAA, how often would there be an opportunity to get someone to add additional funds to TIAA?
Would you also expand a little on how the “overall compensation of a WMA is tied significantly to meeting and/or exceeding that goal”. Is it a large percentage of the WMA’s salary, and are there any penalties associated with not meeting these goals?
Each WMA is responsible for bringing in new assets to TIAA-CREf in the amount of $50 million. Clients who work with WMAs do indeed have substantial assets at TIAA-CREF but part of the portfolio review process provided by TIAA-CREF is to uncover assets outside of TIAA-CREF that can be brought in from other investment companies. When a client goes forward with a the portfolio review he/she provides information such as account statements regarding outside assets. Once the portfolio review is prepared by TIAA-CREF, over 95% of the time the recommendation is to consolidate outside assets with TIAA-CREF. These assets are not restricted to retirement funds but include stocks, bonds, mutual funds, after-tax annuities, and other financial products.
As far as compensation goes, each WMA does receive a salary and is not paid a commission. If the WMA meets or exceeds the asset growth goal, then the bonus would be anywhere from 25%-50% of their base salary (on average). The environment created by management is that jobs are held over your head. There is an atmosphere of “what have you done for me lately” between the management and the WMAs. Not meeting goals in two consecutive years results in termination of employment, regardless of how pleased the clients are with working with that particular WMA. Unlike TIAA-CREF 10 years ago, it is all about the bottom line and less about outstanding service and looking out for the client.
Thanks, LHR74, for the invaluable info you’ve been providing. I’m considering moving money out of my SRA into an after-tax account (probably with Vanguard). How would this affect my WMA? Is he penalized by having the withdrawal netted against the “new money” he’s bringing in?
Each WMA has to account for assets brought in and assets rolled elsewhere. There is only so much he/she can do to convince a client to keep the funds with TIAA-CREF. Vanguard is great but aren’t your SRA funds are pre-tax in nature? As a result, wouldn’t you roll those funds into another pre-tax account otherwise pay income taxes on the funds?
LHR74: Thanks again. Your point about taxes is a good one, but in my own case, since I’m retired and since I strongly suspect that tax rate increases and/or means- testing of Social Security and Medicare are looming on the horizon, I figure it might be better to take the tax hit now and have less reportable income in the future.
Just in case you are not aware, by paying the tax, believe you should be able to convert your SRA to IRA and then a Roth. Check out the site http://www.fairmark .com for Roth info.
As you say TIAAA-CREF is unlike that of 10 years ago, and is even more unlike that of 20 or 30 years ago. Then we only had to decide how to allocate between Traditional and CREF Stock (a much easier and more productive situation in my view).
WMAs and all the other expensive programs that have been created were not necessary. The primary interaction needed with TIAA-CREF was how to best annuitize your (large) account.
Do appreciate your comments, and have another question.
My understanding is that a portfolio review prepared by TIAA-CREF is first sent out to an “independent” agency for analysis and recommendations. Are these recommendations then sent directly to the client, or Is there any group of “portfolio advisors”, other than the WMAs, who can challenge the views of this outside agent?
Or does TIAA-CREF simply show how particular investment instruments of TIAA-CREF can best satisfy the “independent” outside recommendations?
As you may have surmised by the quotes, I am concerned about how independent the advisor is, and of course how competent they are.
There is no ouside third party that reviews these plans. The technology used to provide the portfolio summary and any recommmendation is supposed to be unbiased. The asset allocation recommendations normally were unbiased regarding the location of the assets and concentrated on asset class (i.e. stocks, bonds, cash, real estate etc). This financial picture is accurate and useful for the client. The plans are produced in-house using non-proprietary software purchased by TIAA-CREF. While the asset allocation recommendation is indeed helpful to the clients, it is my first hand opinion that the plans are provided to the client so the WMAs can uncover outside assets that can be consolidated with TIAA-CREF. Make no mistake, the advisor is not a broker with many financial affiliations but rather a salaried employee of TIAA-CREF. There are few competent WMAs remaining but none are independent nor can they be if they receive all of their salary and additional compensation (bonus) from TIAA-CREF based upon the amount of assets brought to TIAA-CREF from outside sources.
LHR74,
You are mistaken, the plans are not produced in-house. It’s MY job to send out the client information to a 3rd party vendor. This is why WMAs will not make an appointment one week after the first appointment where they gather the financial information of the client. If they ask for a “rush” on the plan, they are dinged down on points because the 3rd party vendor needs time to put it together.
The plans get put together, printed and mailed back to the office where the WMA looks over the plan for about 15 min.
The WMAs are OVERLOADED with work. I work with WMAs in 8 different states. They rarely get the time to even look over the information in the plan, so you can just forget about them challenging any recomendations.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but to say they are produced in-house is the biggest lie ever.
Still with TIAA: I stand corrected regarding the current processing of the plans but I know first hand that they were previously prepared in-house whether you want to believe it or not because I was at TIAA-CREF for over 10 years and I was a WMA. Of course the current WMAs are overloaded with work, they have to bring in $50 million or they’ll get the boot!
By the way, you conveniently left out any mention of the so-called unbiased nature of the plan or the real reason for providing such a plan to the clients. As I previously mentioned, the asset allocation advice is helpful but the real goal is to have client consolidate his/her assets with TIAA-CREF and you know it.
To: BH, Thanks for the tip.
I’m still trying to understand why TIAA annuities pay out so much less than others I find online including NYLife and many others through Fidelity. Anyone have an idea about that. Are their expenses or losses so bad that they are reducing the basic annuty?
It is a little difficult to make comparisons, as there are different annuity programs. For example, there is a graded method where payments start low but increase over time to try to offset inflation issues. Even the payments in the standard method vary based upon the returns of the funds that you annuitize.
Suggest you give them a call to get some of the publications that describe these various options.
Don’t believe online calculations can tell the whole story.
There could be many different reasons none of which I believe are bad. In general, check the mortality tables used by each company. As of recent, TIAA-CREF did use a 2 year set back from the standard mortality tables because historically, clients with TIAA-CREF have a greater life span. This would create a lower payment than another company not using a set back. As mentioned by others, the TIAA Traditional can be paid from the standard or graded methods and that too will make a big difference in the payment. Standard pays the full amount right away while the graded method holds some back for reinvestment creating an increasing payment over time but the graded starts out lower. I frequently discussed these methods with clients and the rule of thumb was that it will take 9 years for the graded payment amount to reach the payment level of the standard and an additional 9 years for the total payout of the graded to exceed the standard payout total. Lastly, annuity payments from the variable accounts assume a return of 4% in the first year to be conservative. If the account performs higher than that, the payment will go up reflecting the difference between the actual payment and the 4% payout. Subsequent payment reflect the full actual performance of the respective variable account. I hope this helps somewhat.
As an added note, you may recall that the setback for CREF is different than for TIAA. I was among those laid off in Aug, 2008 and cannot recall the exact difference but it is different. Details were in the training manuals (if they’re still around)…or possibly in the Knowledge Base info if that’s been accurately documented.
My understanding is that mortality statistics for professors versus the general population indicate appreciably longer lifespans for faculty, hence lower annuity payments.
Can someone explain why TIAA Traditional Interest Only Payments interest rates on funds applied prior to 1994 were dropped from 5.5% to 3.75%, while funds applied this January remained at 4.5%? I have been contributing to TIAA since 1970 with higher rates being applied during the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1990’s while finds applied recently in a low interest environment are getting higher rates.
Many thanks to LHR74 for your unique insights.
Our University dropped TIAA/CREF as an investment option today which is why I sought out this site. I am sure this site will eventually learn the name of our institution, but I’d rather not do it just yet. We are waiting for a clear explanation from our pension committee as to the reason. They mentioned only vague concerns.
I stopped investing in TIAA/CREF many years ago when their investment stategies seemed a little too foggy compared to Vanguard. And I am not a fan of annuities. Not a mortal sin, but I prefer seeing exactly what’s going on. Still, I have noticed over the years that TIAA/CREF has been a strong advocate for shareholders rights and sound corporate governance. I don’t think they are the “bad” guys. So I wish them well, but I’ll invest with V.
The former TIAA-CREF CEO who is largely responsible for the decline in service and loss of quality staff is now in charge of the TARP program. How depressing!
I just found this site in despair after been given the run around by Tiaa Cref trying to rollover my 403b. Each month its a different document they need, even to the extent of now having someone from the non profit I worked at 24 years ago sign that I no longer work there. It looks like at this stage I will need to get a lawyer involved to get my own money out. Does anyone know an independent body I can turn to for help?
Hi all, sorry I’m late to the TIAA-CREF problems party. The reason for my apologie is because I would have loved to help many of you here looking for hands-on guidance for fixing these typical T-C problems.
FWIW, since 2001 I have been making a living off of T-C’s shortcomings. Essentially this is what I do every day, and truth be told, its rather easy (once you completely understand the inner workings of the T-C monster).
I classify T-C participants/account holders into two distinctive groups:
Type A: The blind-eyed everything-will-be-ok-with-my-money TIAA-CREF lovers, therefore I’m committed to them for life.
Type B: It’s obvious that TIAA-CREF can care less about me and my financial future because if they did they would have contacted me at least once in the last [fill in the blank] number of years (from 1 year to 40+ years with no guided intervention… I’ve seen it all).
Finding type B’s that need and want help is how I make a living. Unfortunately I come across type A’s that have spent a lifetime with T-C that suddenly have an epiphany that, in fact, everything isn’t “ok” and now they need help badly because they want to retire but what they really need to retire comfortably just isn’t there. Sadly enough in those cases all that I can do for them is apply a tourniquet and figure out what they need to do to be able to retire as soon as possible without running the risk of outliving their money, and doing so without annuitizing the vast majority of their retirement account. Many of you may know this, but on a side note, annuitization guarantees income for a set amount of time or a lifetime, however it ALSO guarantees loss of control of one’s money. Oh, and it’s irrevocable.
If anyone’s wondering, I represent a very large company who is approved as an “alternate carrier” in many of our