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ING Direct Closed Customer’s Account Due to Bad Credit

by Flexo on May 10, 2007

in Banking

Is it discrimination to cancel a customer’s checking account for their bad credit? ING Direct has done so to Nick, who emailed me (and Consumerist) a complaint forwarded to the ING Direct ombudsman. ING Direct has closed his Electric Orange account, a checking account that earns a minimum of 4.0% APY currently.

Evidently, ING Direct performs periodic account reviews and will close accounts from customers who may abuse their overdraft protection based on credit reports. Nick admitted he had been “living in” the $1,000 overdraft protection (more like a cash advance). That could have triggered the account review.

I must express that I am heartbroken!! Yes, I have credit that is less than desirable, but I do not feel that is a basis for your discriminatory actions. Your decision has left me heartbroken, and also feeling foolish for all the recommendations that I’ve made to people for ING Direct…

Also of note, I have received two letters from your company regarding making more than “six transfers” from my savings. After the first letter, I carefully planned my transactions in such a way that I would use 2-3 transactions on each of my savings accounts, after which point they would be used for deposit only. ING Direct does not to tell people that they count transfers among ALL the savings accounts for a customer number toward the six each month.

As someone who received a similar six-transfer-maximum letter, I am sure Nick is misinformed on this point. The limit is six per account, not per SSN, as confimed by an ING Direct customer service representative. Nick probably received a second letter after changing the withdrawals because these letters are delayed by at least a month.

But this issue is unrelated to the closing of the checking account. Was this done fairly? Continue reading for ING Direct’s initial notice and Nick’s full response.

This letter was sent from ING Direct to Nick.

Dear Nicholas,
Customer Number: XXXXXXXXXX

Based on your credit score, which was provided by a consumer-reporting agency, we have decided to close your account. We have reduced your Overdraft Line of Credit to zero ($0). We feel this action is in your best interest as well as ours.

Because we want to make sure you have time to manage the transition of your account, we will leave the deposit portion of your account open for the next 30 days. Please use that time to:

* Change any direct deposits you currently have scheduled for your Electric Orange.
* Update any bill payments that are currently set up for your Electric Orange.
* Repay any outstanding balance you might have on the Overdraft Line of Credit.
* Allow any pending transactions to clear.

After 30 days, you will not be able to use your Electric Orange – it will be restricted from all account activity. This means you will not be able to transfer funds in to or out of your Electric Orange or use your MasterCard(r) debit card.

Any account balance plus any interest earned on your Electric Orange will be transferred back to your external, linked checking account five business days later. However, if we know of transactions that have not cleared within those five days, we will wait to transfer funds until those transactions have been processed.

Please keep in mind, that while information from a consumer-reporting agency in whole or in part influenced our decision, the reporting agency did not make this decision and cannot provide information about it. However, if you have any specific questions regarding your credit report, you can contact that agency directly using the following information:

Equifax
Consumer Services
Atlanta, GA 30374-0241
1-800-685-1111
www.equifax.com

Under section 612 of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, you have a right to obtain a free copy of your credit information on file at the agency, if your request is made within 60 days of receiving this notice. Under Section 611 of the Act, you also have the right to dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in that report.

Please note this does not affect any other accounts you may have with ING DIRECT. In addition, you are welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days. If you have any questions, you can give us a call at 1-888-464-0727 from 8 AM to 8 PM any day of the week.

Thank you.

Here is Nick’s full response. Is it warranted?

When I first opened my ING Account, the rates, services and products were unlike anything I’d encountered in the banking world! The ING Direct website is fantastic, easy-to-use and VERY helpful. If one calls your call center, the representatives are always helpful, enthusiastic, and definitely one of the better customer service experiences out there. You deserve a great kudos
for that!

However, I have enclosed an email that I received yesterday, and I must express that I am heartbroken!! Yes, I have credit that is less than desirable, but I do not feel that is a basis for your discriminatory actions. Your decision has left me heartbroken, and also feeling foolish for all the reccomendations that I’ve made to people for ING Direct. You can bet that has ceased, and will be replaced with a stern warning for anyone considering opening any kind of account with your company. I have also re-advised people to whom I have reccommended ING Direct to in the past, as I wish no one to have to go through this terrible situation. I’ve also advised several finance ‘blogs as to ING Direct’s new practices, as they have spoken very highly of your company in the past.

Also of note, I have recieved two letters from your company regarding making more than “six transfers” from my savings. After the first letter, I carefully planned my transactions in such a way that I would use 2-3 transactions on each of my savings accounts, after which point they would be used for depost only. ING Direct does not to tell people that they count transfers among ALL the savings accounts for a customer number toward the six each month. This practice is misleading, and should be clarified in future letters sent out.

I have closed out my CD’s, and all but two accounts. I will eventually be closing all of my accounts, and using only my local Credit Union.

Thank you for your time, and I wish you the best of luck in the future.

I still hold a good portion of my cash at ING Direct, though in a few months I plan on simplifying my finances and reducing the number of banks I do business with.

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Flexo, the owner and creator of Consumerism Commentary, has been blogging and writing for the internet since 1995 and has been building online communities since 1991. Find out more about him and follow him on Twitter.

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  • Wil
    Although a part of me (the customer side) feels for this guy, another part (the PF guy side) understands and even admires ING for doing this.

    Does it suck that someone could lose a deposit account based on credit? You betcha! On the other hand, for those without credit issues, doesn't it suck a little bit that the interest rates for all are decreased just a little bit to help pay for the problems that may come up for ING later? Again, you betcha.
  • Nick
    "We fire our customers is a colorful way of putting it," said ING Direct's Kuhlmann. "While the banking business says the customer is always right, we're online guys and you can only do business with us in a certain way."
  • The six withdrawal rule is well established for savings accounts, whether online or not.

    If Nick happens to stop by, perhaps he can elaborate what "living in $1,000 overdraft protection" means, specifically. Bank accounts are not meant to be lines of credit, but if ING Direct offers the service, can they penalize someone for using it?

    My impression is that a consistent negative balance in a bank account is reason enough to do an account review -- or even to just cancel the account and use "account review" as an excuse. Negative balances are good for no one.
  • Nick
    I had used the overdraft protection off and on, but how it is presented makes it almost like they ENCOURAGE you to use it. You can take cash from it, debit/credit use at a store, etc.

    BUT, that is not the reason they cited! That's my concern here. That is the question here... Also, why wouldn't they run this BEFORE opening the account? Why am I being invited to open an account again in 30 days?

    Also, my boyfriend is experiencing a situation like this, although ING is holding his new debit card hostage for some reason. His account was just opened, and they really tried to upsell him on the Electric Orange... He opened one, and now they won't send a card, or say much about it.
  • Nick
    quote:
    "Bank accounts are not meant to be lines of credit, but if ING Direct offers the service, can they penalize someone for using it?"

    Thank you.
  • Sorry...I'm still a bit confused. You were regularly $1,000 over drafted?

    Over draft protection is pretty common. My bank pushes it also, though the charge a $10 fee for each overdraft. It's much better than $35 for an overdraft. But despite that my bank offers me this service, it says in my member agreement (the multi-page brochure of fine print) that excessive overdraft activity can lead to review and suspension. I am certain ING would have a similar term.

    I have ING, but not their checking, so I couldn't verify this myself. Regardless, living in $1,000 of regular overdrafts is certainly excessive!
  • Are we getting the whole story here? What do you mean by abusing an overdraft checking account? Was he over drafting frequently, or was this simply a matter of a random credit check and they canceled the account due to his score?

    Please elaborate on what "Nick admitted he had been 'living in' the $1,000 overdraft protection" means!
  • I will say this, I have a ING Direct account, and while I didn't read all of the fine print, I did review some of it. I did not read where there was any credit review when I opened my account. However, I noticed a ping on my credit report.

    Personally, I don't think it's right for them to require overdraft protection and then pull the whole account because they all of a sudden decide they don't like you.
  • Nick
    Yeah... erm... I totally need a financial advisor... that takes checks. :)

    No, my account was not overdrafted 1,000 regularly. Except for the last week, I would carry a positive balance a lot of the time, and shortly before payday I would sometimes use my "line of credit*." ING presents this like a line of credit. I would use their credit, and pay them for that privelege.

    *From their website: "If you need to use your line of credit, there is no fee; you will just pay a variable competitive interest rate of 12.25% on the amount you need."
  • Anon
    If I were ING, I wouldn't credit Nicholas either. That's what credit reports are for, to measure the risk level of every borrower.

    We enjoy those high APYs because ING can take less risk by filtering out the (potentially) risky customers. Way to go, ING!

    The problem with a checking account is that it cannot come without any overdraft protection, AFAIK. So the bank did the right and logical thing.
  • Flexo or Nick - I can understand revoking the overdraft facility based on credit score. After all overdraft protection is an emergency loan - and every loan must take into account the risk of non-repayment. Credit score is a good indicator of such a risk. So yes, when it comes to "We have reduced your Overdraft Line of Credit to zero" based on credit score...I do believe ING has acted in the best interest of both the involved parties.

    However, closing down his checking account is not fair. If there is no overdraft facility, then I fail to see how he can be a liability on the bank. However, this is explained by ING's terms, which specifically state that:

    by applying for EO or using our EO services, you'e also applying for an OLOC. If you don't want the OLOC, you can't have EO.


    That's stupid of ING (in my opinion), but that's how it is - I am not sure if other banks that offer overdraft have a similar condition.

    Flexo: "but if ING Direct offers the service, can they penalize someone for using it?" - The letter does not say anywhere that Nick is being penalized for using his overdraft protection facility; the letter clearly says that it's "Based on your credit score" - which I think, is OK. But again, it's fair only as far as closing the overdraft facility is concerned - not fair for closing a checking account.
  • Archetypical
    I see the frustration, but Overdraft Protection is, as it's name implies, a pad to protect you just in case.

    Their literature does encourage that customers use it, so maybe both sides need to re-examine their expectations of use.
  • Goldie
    Ing is more than a little twitchy about customers. I'm not sure where I stand on this one (I would think revoking overdraft protection would be the solution but I'm not a banker) However I have my own issue with Ing My husband signed up for an Ing account. (I referred him). Ing called him up to verify something before opening the account, and was very rude to him. He wasn't in his most patient mood so he balked a bit and then said "never mind I don't need the account." Now if he tries to get an account they will not open one for him. Our credit is good - but because he wasn't friendly on a call they have blacklisted him. We called up the chain attempted to apologize, but apparently once someone is on the 'no add' list they are _never_ removed.
  • I had read that ING gets rid of customers who are less profitable to them. They want to keep the great 80% of customers and get rid of the 20% of customers that they consider difficult. The theory is that this is what allows them offer such a great rate.

    I fail to see how Nick is a problem customer here. The only thing that I can think of is that the credit risk of Nick is greater than the 12% they are getting from the the protection. In this case ING should probably raise the overdraft rates. However, then all the customers with good credit would complain.
  • Mireille
    Reading this I wonder whether overdraught protection is aimed at protecting the customer, or at generating more income for banks. The interest rates wielded by banks for cash advances seem very high to me: 12% to 19.9% (I gathered these figures from the internet, so they may not be entirely accurate). Some banks couple these protection fees with the practice of first deducting these fees from the accounts of customers and only then paying the overdraft bills, a practice which leads to more overdraft and more penalty fees, i.e. more income for these banks.

    Doing some online googling on this subject I stumbled across an interesting article about overdraught protection, by Annys Shin, with a summary of a recent study by the Centre for Responsible Lending (link included). Ca. 16% of borrowers - the so called repeat borrowers - pay 75% of all overdraft loan fees (7.3 billion of 10.3 billion). Compared to non-repeat borrowers, repeat borrowers less often own their own house, and more often are single and non-white.

    If you want to know more, check out this article.
  • Rosa
    This happened to me, as well, although I've never, EVER been overdrawn on my ING EO account (and the checking account it is linked to hasn't been overdrawn in over a year)! The letter I received this morning was identical to Nick's...

    My transfers were also quite limited.

    I am/was absolutely astounded!!
  • Ken
    Interestingly enough, the ING Direct website says:

    CREDIT REPORTS – You agree that in connection with your application for EO and the OLOC, the Bank reserves the right to obtain credit information about you from one or more credit reporting agencies. You also agree that the Bank reserves the right to obtain follow-up credit reports on you in connection with the maintenance, review or collection of your EO and/or OLOC.

    It wasn't more than 4-5 weeks ago that I received my ING Direct savings account email statement with a link to info about the Electric Orange account. At that point, the FAQ CLEARLY STATED that no credit check would be performed for these accounts.

    In fact, there was a question asking if opening an account could possibly reduce a credit score due to an inquiry. The answer was that no check would be performed.

    It seems to me that there would be a cause for legal action if this statement was violated.

    I'm assuming that ING Direct recently changed their policy on this issue. Does anyone perhaps have a print-out or PDF of their previous FAQ?
  • Ken
    Apparently there HAS been a change of ING Direct's policy. See this about.com page that also refers to the NO CREDIT CHECK policy:

    http://banking.about.com/od/checkingaccounts/p/...
  • Nick
    Nevermind... I found the orgininal TOS and it says they may...
  • Three cheers for ING! I love a bank that will filter out the deadbeats for the benefit of the responsible customers.
  • Anon
    @Nick:

    What's the difference if I write Anon or BSUserName? It's still the same, as long as I don't link to a personal web page. Posting anonymously does not invalidate my point. I honestly think you have the wrong attitude here (the "I am ergo I deserve" type). You should grow up and stop whining when a bank treats you as you probably deserve. Credit scores were invented exactly for that reason.

    The bank has every right to choose its customers. I think they were pretty gracious by giving you 30 days for your incoming transfers. A brick and mortar big bank would have probably closed the account immediately.

    Compared to the risk of a subprime borrower, a 12% APR is nothing. Plus, by using your checking account as if it were a credit line, you demonstrated that you were an irresponsible customer, probably the same image your credit history projects. The overdraft protection is there for rare accidental use, not regular one. You tried to profit of the fact that ING does not have an overdraft fee, and that they have a very nice overdraft APR, and you got burned.

    I applaud ING for getting rid of the risky customers. Just as not everybody deserves to be insured by Amica, by doing this "spring cleanup", ING can continue to offer their great service to deserving customers.
  • SimpleMind
    My Electronic Checking got closed too.

    Before I get into why it was closed. There are a few people who seem to not understand how this account works. "Electronic Orange" is a paperless checking account. If there are no funds or not enough funds the transaction gets rejected. The online bill pay works that way too. Not enough funds, payment doesn't get sent.

    I would think it is almost impossible to abuse this account.

    I called ING and asked if they can reconsider. They politely said "No". They considered me a risk because there is Overdraft protection. I had $200 worth of overdraft protection. I guess they were worried I might take the $200.00 and run off to Mexico. I actually DON'T need OD protection. All I care about is having an account. My credit score is 50 points higher than when they initially offered me the account 7 months ago.

    I question the way my closing was handled.

    I am not upset with my OD protection pulled. I think as with any lender they have the right to cancel or close your account with little or no notice.

    I believe with a checking account they need to send a notice in writing via snail mail. And give an exact date when the account will be closed. All I received was a generic e-mail explaining it will happen within 30 days. These days with identity theft, fraud, and phishing, spam filters and whatever you never know if these e-mails are real when you receive it.

    I ran 15 grand in and out of ING accounts the last 7 months. Hell if I am going to give them another dime. They used to be a very nice financial instituation that seperated itself from a branch bank. Now the branch banks and credit unions are outdoing ING. Bye Bye ING, good riddence.
  • Ken
    To be honest, all of us would be better off (as would our communities) using credit unions anyway! My local credit union offers interest rates only slightly lower than ING Direct, no service fees, excellent customer service, a large free ATM network, and both online and in-person banking.

    Find a good local credit union and stick with it. They will offer you credit even when banks won't (i.e. when you actually NEED the money) and at much better terms -- especially if you build a good record with them beforehand.

    Also, many credit unions can offer debt counseling, loan consolidation, and other services that can increase your credit score.

    In other words, they can help you get your credit scores to a point where the banks will be trying to solicit your business. Once you have used a good credit union, though, you probably will not WANT to use a big bank again. (Then you can enjoy the satisfaction of telling the major banks where to go!)

    Keep your money (and profits) in the local community where it belongs!
  • SimpleMind
    On my old terms It specifically says They will do no credit check, and they will not report this to any of the reporting agencies unless you default.

    but on the other hand it says the terms are subjeck to change with little or no notice.
  • SimpleMind
    I mean subject to change.. sorry about the typo..
  • SimpleMind
    Does ING do a hard pull?

    According to their FAQ, No. From the ING FAQ:
    From Electronic Orange FAQ's 2/17/07

    Are you sure you don't pull my credit to get the Overdraft Line of Credit?
    Yes – positive. We do not check or 'ding' your credit. The standard $1,000 line does not even show up on your credit report, unless of course you don't pay us back.
  • Tee
    I'm not surprised with ING's decision. I had a harrowing experience in the summer of 2001 that haunts me to this day. My husband and I married in June 2001. We had both had separate ING accounts. When we married, we decided to do a joint account. We called to find out what, if any, special procedures/limitations there would be. We were told there were none. We asked if there would be a way for us to simply "add" the other to one of the accounts, without there needing to be any sort of "hold" on the account and we were told that could be done, though they might put a maximum three day hold on the account. With this knowledge, we added me to his account.

    More than a week later, we attempted to withdraw money for a down payment on a house, and couldn't. And an automatic loan payment was rejected. When we inquired as to why this happened, we were told that there was a 10 BUSINESS day hold on our account. When we asked why, we were told because we had just opened the account. We explained that wasn't correct, we had simply added me to the account, which should not have resulted in such a significant hold. We were transferred to a manager, who apologized for the mix-up, explained an incorrect code had been up on our account, and advised the account would be taken out of the "hold" status within two business days. We made alternative arrangements to cover the other issues.

    After the passing of the second business day, we again attempted to withdraw the money for the down payment, only again to be told there was another 10 day hold on the account. I asked to speak to a manager (it was late, around midnight) and whomever I talked to said they were it. I explained we had just gone through this issue a few days earlier, that it was to have been resolved, and that this was a significant detriment to us, especially since it was a result of ING's mistake (i.e., they put the wrong code on the account). The person with whom I spoke acknowledged this appeared to be the case, but said there was nothing they could do for me that night. I attempted to contact a manager the next day but my call was not returned during normal business hours (if memory serves me correctly). Anyway, the next day, I received a letter in the mail which indicated that my behavior was inappropriate and threatening, that I had been beligerent and demanding (I wasn't, but I don't think it would be unreasonable if I had been given the circumstances), and that, as such, they were cancelling our joint and individual accounts, and I was never welcomed to do business with them ever again since I'm such a "problem" for them. I was flabbergasted. I can't put into words how I felt -- I wanted to be belligerent at that point. We attempted to contact them to find out what prompted this "inappropriate" response but they refused to divulge any information, simply stating they can do what they want. My husband wanted us to just let it go, so I did.

    Big mistake -- in 2004, we separated, then divorced. He attempted to open an account with ING. Guess what -- he couldn't. Why? Because he "knows" me. That's right. He had to get a letter, notarized, stating that he had nothing to do with me. Meanwhile, I have been receiving solicitations from ING Direct since the day we moved into our house in 2001. I get them in my new residence. I'm appalled that a company would take this type of approach with a customer, when the company was at fault.

    But, given the way they treated me, I'm not surprised they would decide to cancel someone's account because they were overdrawn or had bad credit. They certainly get an F in my book. If they continue to cause me problems indirectly, I will be forced to take recourse. My advice, don't do business with a company you can't see face to face. Sorry to Nick for his experience -- but I agree with the poster who said that credit unions and local banks are the way to go....you won't get as much interest but you will get personalized and, hopefully, courteous service.
  • Roger
    "Three cheers for ING! I love a bank that will filter out the deadbeats for the benefit of the responsible customers"

    Its already too late. From what I have been told ING has a problem. Tens of thousands of people have already maxed out overdraft protection. Most of these people have lines up to $1,000. I am not sure how much ING has already loaned out with OD protection. I would guess somewhere between 80 to 150 million. With all this money loaned out it would be harder to continue attractive rates for CD's, and Savings accounts.

    The overdraft protection is like an "Honor" system. There's no due date. Just put money back into the account whenever. I think its a system that is bound for failure. Its human nature for a lot of people to spend beyond their means. Max it out again and again and again.

    I think ING will need to have some sort of minimum payment plan. Maybe more restrictions. Like max it out.. but you have to pay at least half back or make the minimum payment for 3 or 4 months in order to use it again.
  • Altec
    I encourage Nick and others with similar situations to place a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (or the more appropriate authority). If it is correct that his account was closed although he was in compliance with its terms, this seems unjustified. I also take issue with what appears as retaliatory action by ING against customers who bring bank errors to their attention (i.e., the poster whose account was closed after she attempted to rectify an account hold). I also encourage her to register a complaint.

    I do not believe ING (or any other bank for that matter) should be allowed to close accounts that comply with their terms. In the short-run, there may be little or no remedies for these cases. In the long-run, placing a complaint establishes a record. As a result, this record may be used to hold the business accountable for its actions down-the-line.

    I appreciate the benefit of my ING account but not at the detriment of others treated unfairly. Yes, I care. I will not get on my soap box about the government’s responsibility to ensure equal access to high-yielding savings, particularly for those with the least wealth and subsequently more likely to have less than stellar credit.

    I also have a credit union account, which some posters have recommended. Unfortunately, their savings rates are not the best. For example, a money market account with my CU offers the best rate on savings without term requirements, about 1% APY. The rate on a regular savings account is about half of this. However, money market accounts requires a minimum balance of $10,000. On the positive-side, the interest rate on the car loan from my CU was extremely competitive.
  • Simplemind
    According to the terms of the account. ING may close the account at anytime for any reason.

    12. CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT – We may, subject to applicable law, close your Account at any time, regardless of whether you’re in default. If your Account is closed by us or you, you agree to pay us all amounts you owe under the terms of the OLOC Agreement. If you’re in default, we may close your Account and require you to pay us immediately the entire amount you owe under the OLOC Agreement, in full. If we do this, we may also require you to pay us immediately the entire amount you owe under other loans or accounts you may have with us, in accordance with applicable law and subject to any contrary agreement we may have with you. You may ask us to close your Account at any time, by calling us or using our website. You also agree to stop using the Account immediately after you notify us in writing that you want us to close your Account.
  • Richard
    I agree that Nick's OD line should be discontinued at ING's discretion, but to close a CHECKING account? That 's ludicrous. How does a checking account with 0 balance and a 0 credit line adversely affect ING?

    More than that though... Tee's story is amazing. That kind of service and treatment for trying to resolve a series of mistakes made on ING's end?? THAT is scary. It sounds as though once you have an issue with ING, they will mark you as a "problem" customer and jettison you ASAP. Worse yet, banned because of an affiliation of a blacklisted member????

    All in all, this does NOT sound like a bank that works for ME; that wants ME as a customer. And you know, it would be one thing if they had like a 7.0% APY account that no one else was doing, then OK... while their customer service would still be less than desirable (to put it mildly), it could well be *because they could*.

    However, with ING's current yield and balance requirements, and with SEVERAL online banks with higher interest rates (hello 6.0% FNBO!), and lower balance requirements and so forth than ING, ING really has some cojones to be treating people the way they do.

    I for one am CERTAINLY NOT begging to be a customer of theirs.
  • Nick
    Thank you!! A lot of the self-righteous, white, college-educated, privileged suburban scum that is so judgmental were making me feel bad, just a little... I may have a bad credit score compared to you, but I am working on making things better every day.

    Bad credit is no indication of a bad person. We don't deserve to have our checking accounts closed at a bank's whim.
  • simplemind
    Don't worry Nick.. My account was closed too. These people don't realize it only takes ONE accident or Illness to ruin a credit score. Most medical insurance plans cover only 80%.

    You can talk smart all you want but if you end up getting sick, and have to pay $40,000 out of a $200,000 hospital bill. I'm sure your credit score will suffer too.
  • Happyapple1
    It happened to me too. I only overdrew my account twice and only by the MOST $20 and I put the money back less than 5 days later. I don't appreciate that they would do this. I am going to call them tomorrow and see why they in fact did this...if they don't reconsider, I am closing all my accounts with ING.
  • ogdred weary
    >>A lot of the self-righteous, white, college-educated, privileged suburban scum

    Please - spare us the victimology...


    A company should be able to terminate a customer relationship for any reason, just as a customer has the right to do so.
  • Lotus Chick
    Your best bet would be to keep all records of correspondence with this company and report them to the Better Business Bureau. Keep in mind that it's all about your rights, however companies DO change their policies without notice, so either review it from time to time, or just take your business elsewhere. ING has competitors such as Emigrantdirect or even from Citibank, who are not only online accessible, but also brick and mortar.
  • Bryon
    I, too, got the letter today.

    I think a little background info needs to be shared to understand how this could happen.

    What has not mentioned in this thread..is the fact when you open the account..a overdraft line is established...without checking your credit at all. In retrospect..if this is not a recipe for diaster..I don't know what is.

    Hasppily..in my case..it was low and I will have no problem paying all of it back shortly. I can see how $1000 line would have been worse..if i had been granted that..and maxed it out (impossible) then yup..I would have a problem paying it back in the next thirty days.

    Many of you don't understand how this worked..I'll share. This checking account has no "normal" checks. This overdraft protectionwas, in fact, a line of credit. There was no way you could overdraft a checking account with no normal checks...it worked a bit different. Not only could you use the line by having them mail checks for you..to pay whatever..they even provided you with a mastercard debit that accessed it as well. As I pointed out...they made it extremely easy to use the credit line with these..uhh.."features".

    I don't expect this to be fair. In fact..the reason my score is so low is because Capital One decided that 7 years was not long enough punishment for my old unpaid credit card left over from the great credit disaster (and Home Depot layoff) of 1999..and promptly re-aged it. After four disputes with Equifax..much has changed (corrected) but little has improved scorewise. It also didn;t help that another two year debt was reaged as well to look current..since corrrected..but the damage is there..more than 150 pouints.

    Fair? Nope. I don't expect fairness.
  • Jim
    I received the same email as Nick sometime last week, and I have to say I feel his disappointment. I thought ING was great. I have been banking with them for almost a year and never had a problem. Then they offered me this great checking account, and my first thought was, "damn, I have horrible credit, I will never be approved for this." I ran into some credit card problems in college that I am still paying for. It was my own fault, poor little spoiled kid runs up thousands of dollars of debt.

    I had been without a credit/debit card for almost 3 years, so imagine my surprise and joy at getting approved by ING. I was given a $250 line of credit and I recieved my mastercard in the mail. I was able to reserve hotel rooms, purchase plane tickets, and order items online again. I was careful to repay any overdrafts as soon as possible and all the while ING is encouraging the use of their overdraft line. Finally, after almost 6 months I thought everything was great, so set up direct deposit for my paychecks from work. That way, whenever I did overdraft it would be paid back in no more than two weeks.

    And then I got the email. The very same week, in fact, that my boss sent in my direct deposit paywork to human resources. I fully understand that I am viewed as a liability, but these people gave me hope and made my life so much easier and then they take it all way. It makes no sense that they would not check our credit to begin with. I could have lived with that, but they had made me angry beyond belief. If my paychecks were to be deposited every two weeks I don't see how it could even be a problem for them.

    Well they have lost out, I was raving to all my friends about ING and now I have to go back and let them know not to make the same mistake I did. The real irony in all of this is, that, two days after they sent their email, I was approved for a mastercard with a line of credit. I wouldn't even have accepted that card if I still had ING, I would much rather be dealing with debit card, but, alas, ING took that from me. It is my fault? Probably, but I still can't help feeling that they screwed me over, and lost one really happy customer.
  • jonathan
    "A lot of the self-righteous, white, college-educated, privileged suburban scum"
    -nick

    Nick what does "white" and "college-educated" have to do with it? Nothing...your just a little upset that you took advantage of a safety net linked to your account too many times, right?

    In a way I'm sorry that this happened, but then again in the real banking world ODP is there to help keep customers from writing bad checks. When a customer's ODP gets hit too many times it shows that they are either A)not keeping up with their checking acct. balance or B)Spending and knowing that they are going to have ODP pay for the check to be paid.

    Maybe when you get your next checking account you should should get it at an actual bank where you can go in and speak to someone face to face. You may just have to give up the benefits of online to have personal contact.

    Hope things work out in the furture for you. (Oh I'm white and college educated)
  • Tim
    Nick's letter simply does not address the problem. ING closed the account b/c of credit history, which creditors and banks use to determine continued behavior. bad credit history coupled with current bad financial behavior (i.e. continued use of overdraft) implies continued bad financial behavior.

    i'm troubled by the perception people have about overdraft. overdraft with over 12% and fees is not enticing nor encouraging.

    remember, knowingly writing bad checks can be a felony (depending on the State and amount). if you are continually overdrafting a checking account, you are essentially continually writing bad checks. not a wise decision.

    moreover, if you are continually in overdraft, there seems to be an underlying financial management problem--that is, you are spending more than you are making.

    re: BBB. BBB is not an end all and are not a consumer advocate per se. they forward to the company your complaint, which the company may or may not reply. the co. is under no way required to respond to BBB. if you feel that something is truly afoul, then contact your state attorney general and or a lawyer.
  • simplemind
    As with all internet banking. The OD protection was suppose to be to help if you needed cash during the "Floating time". I believe if you didn't have direct deposit, when you transfer monely from your local branch bank account the floting time before the money became available was 2 business days. If you sent a check to be deposited by mail the funds will be put on hold for 4 business days. Probably a week to 10 days if you count the time it takes for USPS to deliver it.

    The OD was suppose to be for that. The problem is ALL Electronic Orange accounts come with OD protection. They don't offer an EO account without it.

    I dropped all ING accounts and decided to go with HSBC. They seem to have good online checking and savings accounts like ING.

    Here's why I picked HSBC.

    1. If you deposit into savings funds are IMMEDIATELY available when posted to your account. (ING the wait is 10 business days)

    2. You can get a debit card for the savings account. That way you don't have to wait 2 or 3 business days for the money to be transfered back into your branch checking account. You can get immediate withdrawl from the debit card.(ING does not offer this except with EO)

    3. Rates are much better. 5.05%.. ING is 4.5%

    4. 24 hour telephone customer service. ING stopped 24 hour CS a few years ago. They started closing at 10 PM.. Now ING closes at 8 PM. I called HSBC after work at 2 AM and got someone to answer my questions.


    I got approved for a checking account with them as well. I didn't ask for OD protection. Don't need it don't care. But it has all the benefits as Electronic Orange and THE ABILITY TO WRITE PAPER CHECKS!!!

    Minimum amount to start a savings or checking is $1.00. Sounds like a good deal to me. I'll take that.

    Any other good or bad things to say about HSBC? So far they look good..




    2.
  • Jonathan
    i'm troubled by the perception people have about overdraft. overdraft with over 12% and fees is not enticing nor encouraging.

    remember, knowingly writing bad checks can be a felony (depending on the State and amount). if you are continually overdrafting a checking account, you are essentially continually writing bad checks. not a wise decision.


    Well said Tim :D

    If you take advantage of something, it will be taken away. Not just ODP, but your whole checking account if you show bad personal financial management.
  • destardi
    Gee Tim, thanks for the handy reminder.

    It doesn't apply here, unfortunately.

    ING gives you a mastercard to access your funds; there ARE no paper checks.

    Within the ING website, in the EO account, at the top, it shows balance, pending charges, available balance, AND OVERDRAFT protection, with a little equals sign showing your "TOTAL SPENDING POWER." It INCLUDES the OD protection in your available spending power amount.

    You people saying "good for ING," and judging harshly on people who have negative marks on their credit reports, are heartless arses. As stated by another poster, one medical issue in your family can quickly become a credit nightmare. As well as people who are laidoff.

    Not to mention you have a country that encourages irresponsible spending, and selling of debt to China. If you add this into a person's parents not knowing how to manage money, and passing that onto their children, I hardly consider "cheering" on a corporate entity for coming down hard on people in general. In Nick's case, I don't offer much in the way of sympathy, but to bash him, and others' in worse conditions is absolutely D I S G U S T I N G.

    karma.
  • sparky
    Unfortunately from the sound of it, even people who have decent credit scores and haven't used the ODLOC are finding their accounts closed, so it's not just "deadbeats" getting the shaft. They haven't bothered me (yet), but being that I have less than a thousand dollars in accounts (no doubt I'm one of their "unprofitable scumbags") I'm expecting my number is coming up soon.
  • I just got off the phone with ING Direct USA CEO Arkadi Kuhlman...he said the letters (5,300 of them) were "clearly a mistake," that they "obviously were worded wrong," and that ING Direct does not use credit scores as a reason to close accounts. I posted more information on my blog:

    http://www.asklizweston.com/lizsBlog.html
  • sparky
    So they were wrong in closing the accounts or was the excuse the wrong one?
  • Simplemind
    I don't buy ING's statement.
    here's why:

    1.) Shortly before my EO was closed, there WAS a soft hit from ING Direct which showed up on my credit report.

    AR-ING DIRECT 04/12/07

    2.) I contacted ING Direct. They told me the decision was solely based on my credit score.


    If they worded an E-mail wrong, it should be good business common sense to send a corrected E-mail.

    Obviously this company has lost touch with their customers. Time to get an account elsewhere.

    I contacted ING Direct last week. They told me the closing of my EO account was solely based on my credit score.

    Granted ING can open or close an account for any reason with or without notice, the bottom line is the 5,300 e-mails need to be corrected and resent.

    And IF my account was closed by other reasons not stated in the e-mail, why did ING do a soft hit with Equifax shortly before the account was closed?

    I don't buy it. If I wrongly worded
    e-mails to my clients. I would make sure another e-mail would be sent out ASAP.
  • Simplemind
    sorry about the run on's at the bottom. Looks like I accidently typed the same information twice. I need to send a corrected post.. LOL
  • ING Direct definitely does credit pulls, but Kuhlman said it's to help determine the size of a customer's overdraft line of credit.

    As for whether the letters were in error, or if ING is merely backpedaling like mad, I dunno. But if your account was closed and you want it reopened, you can give it a shot now.
  • Anonymous
    This is scary. I've had ING Direct's Savings and Electric Orange both for a while. I did not receive this letter, but I'm still scared that I will. I have never used my overdraft line, nor do I have poor credit, but it's not great either (660ish.)

    It's scary that they took this course of action. What I feel should have been done:

    - Notify customers that have been using the overdraft that there will be a credit check
    - Notify 'bad' customers that their overdraft line is being removed and they need to pay back the balance within 30 days of notice (via SNAIL MAIL)
    - Allow these 'bad' customers to keep their accounts with $0 overdraft line

    - If it's true that these letters were a mistake, as someone above mentioned, they should immediately be sending out corrected letters

    If this is the kind of customer service ING Direct is handing out, I'll be switching to HSBC Direct soon. Too bad since I just got my work to begin direct deposit to ING Direct a month ago. I'll hold out a month or two and see the aftermath of this.
  • I had been notified that my account was set to close due to bad credit (I was only extended $250 of overdraft and wasn't using it excessively), but I just got an email stating my account would NOT be closed and the overdraft is already back!
  • Rosa
    Well now...I just received this email:

    On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.

    If you have any questions, give us a call at
    1-888-464-0727.

    Jim Kelly
    Chief Operating Officer
    ING DIRECT
  • Richard
    Sounds to me like they're just trying to mitigate the damage done, after seeing the kind of fallout brewing. If you have any doubt about this, go back to the original text of this thread, and check out the wording of the original letters sent out. That was CLEARLY not an accident, or simply a matter of poor semantics. This was a deliberate action.

    To the people who got these letters in the first place (and to ppl thinking about using ING): do you really want to give your money to this bank for safekeeping? Seems to me that ING's #1 priority is: I N G, not the customer, as it should be.
  • Sharon
    I just received the same email - they closed it and now reopened it. I never requested OD protection, they provide it automatically, and I never abused it.
  • Simplemind
    If enough people zeroed out their accounts or closed their accounts. It really can do damage on a bank. Most banks don't have the cash on hand to cover mass withdrawls.

    This is text from a banking FAQ..

    "If all depositors were to withdraw just 10% of their deposits, the bank would have to close their doors!"
  • Carl
    ING Direct and Electric Orange Account.... I don't think any of the above understands the OverDraft Line of Credit on the Electric Orange Account. ING calls it "Spending Power"...your account balance plus your OverDraft Line. You are encouraged to use it. You do have a minimum payment and due date. You are charged 12% interest when you use your OverDraft Line of credit. ING says they do not check your credit to open the account...but, has the right to do so. They have the right to close an account for no reason.

    I had an EO account with OD. I have never used my OD...nor planned to use it. It was a nice token from ING. My credit is good with 3 out of the 4 agencies. But, a little problem, on going, with Equifax caused ING to close my account like everyone elses. There email was rude...it too hurt my feelings. I liked the EO because it gave me fast access to my savings if I did ever need it....Like HSBC, BOA or my Wacohvia checking and savings. But, I emptied my EO checking into my savings and then closed my savings. I can save my money anywhere...like HSBC or even Capital One or any Money Market Account...Paypal even pays a good rate.

    Now, today...ING sends an email saying my account closing was a mistake and my EO with my OD is restored. Why, this sudden change of heart from ING? Was it truly a mistake? Or do they really miss my automatic deposits every two weeks? And if I go back and reopen my savings and use my EO...what is to say that they will not do this again and again.....
  • Destardi
    Carl, I completely agree.

    You spelled out how "overdraft" or OLOC works with ING, to the other rude commenters, and I appreciate it.

    They are not aware the the OLOC amount is included in your "SPENDING POWER" by default. You can not have an EO account, WITHOUT automatic OLOC protection.

    Secondly, I really thought I would like ING; the website is easy, the transactions have been smooth, and for once, aside from my 401k, I thought hey, I can actually save money and cash in on the higher interest rate.

    Well, this email is a major mistake, whether intentional, or not. Eventually word gets around about sudden account closures, and then sudden reinstatements?

    I know ING's longstanding reputation; but questions about reliability and STABILITY are huge questions when it involves a person's money. I never received the letter, my account was never closed, but I'm in the process of opening another account with a different bank.

    And it sucks; but I have to look out for me.
  • sparky
    I think what simplemind said rings true more than any of the other theories...they're seeing gobs of money flowing out the door all at once and need to try to mitigate it somehow.

    Me thinks the damage is already done to some degree, no matter how much backpedaling they attempt.
  • Liz: Thanks for stopping by to let us know about your conversation with the ING Direct CEO, Arkady Kuhlmann.

    Whether or not ING Direct now supports the plan, the idea to eliminate a fair number of EO/OLOC customers was intentional. The letter was clear and the CSRs had the information as well.

    No, the original plan is not fair to people who have bad credit through no fault of their own. Neither are mortgage applications or anything else that relies heavily on a credit score.

    A better option for ING would have been to remove just the OLOC for those customers viewed as at risk for default. ING *does* mislead its customers by giving a total "spending power" calculation (above the normal account balance) that includes the OLOC, encouraging people to spend beyond what they have.

    This flies in the face of the corporate money management philosophy for its customers that ING Direct has shown for years with its formerly weekly tips newsletter.

    If I had received the original letter, I would have removed all my money from ING Direct. Even after receiving the apology letter, I would not have moved the funds back. There are many other options for online banking available, some of which pay higher interest than ING Direct.
  • plunk25
    I also recieved the same email that Nick did, however this evening I recieved another from ING's COO that stated the following:

    Customer Number: XXXXXXXXXX

    On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.

    If you have any questions, give us a call at
    1-888-464-0727.

    Jim Kelly
    Chief Operating Officer
    ING DIRECT

    -----

    I also have less than desirable credit, however I was frustrated that ING made a poor business decision by not checking credit scores to begin with. When I called the CSR was overly apologetic as I explained that I just changed all of my direct deposits and withdrawels from my old bank to ING.

    Now that I spent all of my time today changing them back to the old bank, I highly doubt that I will ever change them back to ING.

    Take away my line of credit as you wish, but it's a deposit account and I highly doubt any other customers would be affected by it being closed at any time.

    Thank you, Nick. Without a response from customers like us, they would have been able to get away with this.
  • Sarah
    Not that this has any impact on anything, but they have officially changed their policy regarding credit checks to OPEN accounts. As currently posted on their EO FAQ page:

    Do you pull my credit if I apply for Electric Orange and the Overdraft Line of Credit?
    Yes. As part of your application, ING DIRECT will obtain information about you from a consumer credit reporting agency (a “hard pull�) to confirm that you are eligible for Electric Orange.

    Seems like they are being pretty cut and dry with these account closures. When I called to discuss mine (and ask to keep the account with $0 OLOC as I have only used it once--when I changed jobs and was dealing with the change in payroll dates), the CSR said that even his account was closed. One of their own employees--it's not like they don't know exactly how much or when funds will be direct deposited! And he doesn't even have bad credit--just not a lot of it (only student loans). I'm trying to decide exactly what to do with my money now that the account is reopened. Do I like it enough to stick around and deal? Maybe. I will be examining the HSBC account since everybody seems to speak so highly of it. I've been w/ ING for 3 yrs and up to this point have had nothing but raves for them, but this is just ridiculous. Get it right the first time (run credit checks), and don't muck it up even worse when you realize you've made a mistake.

    Oh, and Nick: I am white, college-educated, suburban, and admittedly fairly privileged (even though I can never remember how to spell privilege), yet hopefully not self-righteous or scum. Would my opinion count if I were to disagree with you?
  • Simplemind
    I called to check on my EO account. It is still closed and will remain closed. I guess I didn't make the cut.

    All the e-mails for those who made the cut were sent out on Wednesday. If you didn't yet receive an E-mail, your account will likely be closed.

    Thought I would pass along the information not everbody's account will be re-opened.


    All of a sudden they are doing a hard pull? They are bastards. this is after they previously said...

    Does ING do a hard pull? No

    Are you sure you don’t pull my credit to get the Overdraft Line of Credit?
    Yes – positive. We do not check or ‘ding’ your credit. The standard $1,000 line does not even show up on your credit report, unless of course you don’t pay us back.
  • Anonymous
    Is there any way the people who received this letter could post their credit scores? I am curious where the cutoff was. As I posted above, my Equifax is 660, other scores are 670 and 680, and I did not receive the letter. Post anonymously.
  • Anonymous
    "ING does mislead its customers by giving a total “spending power� calculation (above the normal account balance) that includes the OLOC, encouraging people to spend beyond what they have."

    I copied that quote from above. I will have to side with the people who feel this is misleading. While I agree that it is your responsibility to keep track of your account balance and know what you have, when you go to write a check, they do not list your account balance. The only thing they list is "Spending Power"
  • Simplemind
    I'll give you an idea what my score was. I got my ING account around 12/06. My credit score hit rock bottom. I had some emergency home repairs and car repairs hit all at once. I skipped payments on cars, and credit cards to fix the problems. I eventually got caught up.


    Here is my credit score month to month sice I got Electric Orange.
    478-- 12/06
    506-- 1/07
    513 -- 2/07
    527 -- 3/07
    524 -- 4/07
    570 -- 5/07
  • anem1e
    So, I too received the email from Electric Orange where they notified me that they were closing my account. I love ING direct, and I was disappointed by this decision. I sent an email to ING firmly stating that I thought this was a bad decision and that I was a good ING customer. I have never used my overdraft credit line. My email was firm, but polite.

    A couple of days later, ING for some reason reversed this decision and sent me the following e-mail:

    "On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.

    If you have any questions, give us a call at
    1-888-464-0727.

    Jim Kelly
    Chief Operating Officer
    ING DIRECT"

    As you can see, this was a great surprise to me. My credit score is abysmal as I filed for bankruptcy 6 months ago. I'm not quite sure why ING reversed its decision, but all I can say is that I'm happy that I get to keep my account.
  • Anonymous
    Just got this email. Kiss up to customer time?

    That’s right, from June 1, 2007 to July 31, 2007, when you use your Electric Orange MasterCard® Debit Card to make a signature-based purchase, you’ll get 1% Cash Back, up to $500, on what you spend, anywhere. It’s simple. Just use your Card for every-day purchases like, groceries, clothing, gas, or even to pay utility bills and insurance premiums. It all adds up to a Cash Back reward for you.
  • Coll
    I had the same experience, but instead of replying in an email I chose to call. The reps must've already taken many calls to the same effect and they sounded harried and were verbally abusive. It is a line of credit with interest charged connected to a checking account. I only used it once and paid back three times the minimum amount (for a total of $300/month). I had just made my second payment when they closed the account BEFORE I received the email explaining what had happened. I found out at the gas station on my way to work when my card was declined. I immediately transferred the balance back into ING after I was threatened with being reported to the credit bureau if I did not pay ahead of schedule.

    As soon as my payment cleared, I received the bulk email apologizing for the inconvenience. It neglected to apologize for the insults from the reps I spoke to and for the embarassment of having a card with hundreds of available "spending power" declined. I have never had a card declined in my life.

    As a result, I am now attempting to close my account which is a lot harder to do as a customer than it is to do as the bank!

    I have moved the money from my ING savings to EmigrantDirect and am getting 5.0% APY. I was a customer of ING's since March of 2004, and referred to them many customers which I then came to regret. I am happy to add that explaining their whimsical see-saw approach to banking decisions to my business associates and community members that we have collectively withdrawn over $400,000! I don't place my money in the hands of someone I don't trust and the same holds true for the bank that holds my money.

    Don't trust ING!!!
  • Carl
    I wish ING Direct would say what the mistake was. 5,300 mistakes is a lot of mistakes. I called ING today and verified that my EO/OLOC was infact open. They didn't appologize over the phone for the mistake but, they did reopen my savings account, that I had closed, in two seconds flat. I like ING, after four years, I'll give it another go. I like the EO because it is fast access to my savings and having the OLOC isn't a bad thing though I trust I will never use it. I like saving my money. EO can not replace BoA checking with billpay. I even use Wocohvia as my local bank...since BoA doesn't have a branch in my state.

    My credit isn't great but it isn't horrible and improves monthly. Unless you have ever hit rock bottom like I had in the past you might not appreciate my collection of checking and saving accounts. Your world can turn on a dime too. I say this for the snobs of poor credit scores in the previous post. Try losing your job, because the company you worked 20 years for went under, be unemployed for two years, have your house burn down, your spouse die, burn through your life savings, become homeless for two years, lose 125lbs because of hunger....then not be able to get a job, when one is actually open that you are not under or over qualified for, because your credit score prevents you from being acceptable and you can't open a checking account when you finially get a job for minimum wage (by begging) because of your credit score and have to pay 5-10% just to get your paycheck cashed. Don't be a credit score snob...it isn't becoming.

    So ING made a mistake or a bad decision, whatever. I am human I have made a few myself. But, it seems they are trying to right the wrong. I'll give ING another chance because they were among the first to give me another chance. But, I did give them several C's and F's on their report card....and perhaps before you run away from them, or not, you might also give them deserving grade for their "mistake" towards you. ING like all companies pride themselves on their Customer Service Scores. I just hope that one day I will feel the joy of the Orange again and be able to give them all A's again.
  • Steve
    I can't forgive this mistake. Sorry.

    I was on a business trip. I used my Overdraft Protection to pay for my expenses. My employer reimburses me and I usually pay the OD back within a few days.

    Here is my story. Imagine being out of town, debit card stopped working, and no means to pay for ANYTHING?

    I eventually had to use a Check Advance place.

    Why should I NOT be upset?


    When I contacted CS, it didn't sound like a mistake. They were rude and the atitude was "too bad".

    I don't care if my account is back up or not! ING can keep it. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again.
  • I got the same email and when I contacted the credit bureau they said there was nothing wrong with my score, nor had there been any recent changes.I received an email from ING in two days reinstating the account and overdraft (which I have never used) and saying the account had been closed in error.
  • I'm a new customer to ING, and I admit the Electric Orange account was a big reason why I opened an account with them. I consistently have low balances in my checking accounts because I funnel money into my bills and savings accounts. I do not overdraft. I thought it would be great to have a checking account with no limits on withdrawals, and interest. I figured making $0.10 would be better than gaining nothing.

    I have amazingly good credit, despite carrying a large debt balance. I'm very concerned about these reports I am reading about and how people have been treated. If ING is going to deny an account based on credit, they need to do so at the time of application. It's the only right way to treat the consumer.

    However, ING is totally within their rights to close an account for excessive abuse of the overdraft line. Excessive overdrafts *will* get your accounts closed at almost any bank, regardless of how fast you pay it back. Knowingly writing a bad check (debit, whatever) *is* illegal.

    ING should get rid of the "Spending Power" terminology included in the overdraft line.

    They should also send a warning letter for excessive overdraft usage before terminating an account. It's good customer service to give the customer a chance to 1) know they are doing something wrong 2) correct the situation.
  • Richard
    You know, I'm curious to know what "abusing your overdraft line" means.

    First of all, you give me a line of credit. Read here http://home.ingdirect.com/about/about.asp?s=New... and scroll down to the "Are you going to offer credit cards?" question. So, ING Direct's PRESIDENT says this -- then they give you this line of credit you didn't ask for, and say, here's a "debit" card you can use to access that line of credit.. err -- "overdraft protection". Talk about deceptive.

    Anyway, they give you this line of credit, present it to you as your "spending power". OK... so, I go ahead and SPEND my "spending power". Which part do you call "abuse" again?

    I mean, don't forget, every time I dip into the overdraft, you get paid the 12% interest (or however much). I presumably can't spend past the line of credit... so, how exactly do I "abuse" this?

    More aptly put... how do I "abuse" my SPENDING POWER?
  • It does seem ING is offering a "credit line" instead of "overdraft protection". They *are* encouraging you to use it.

    http://home.ingdirect.com/faqs/faqs.asp?s=Overd...

    How does the Overdraft Line of Credit work?
    The Overdraft Line of Credit covers you if you make a withdrawal that takes your Electric Orange balance below $0.00.

    Example: You have $1000 available in your Electric Orange. You want to buy a new laptop computer for $1,100. Since you have a $165 Overdraft Line of Credit available to you, you can use your Card to buy that laptop. The charge for $1,100 will be approved. Your Electric Orange balance will appear as -$100 on our website. You will now be paying a competitive interest rate on the $100 you have borrowed.
  • Nick
    They are liars.. here's what I got:

    Dear Nicholas,



    We received your email and would like to follow up with you to address your concerns. We understand that you may see our closing your account as a drastic measure, but our experience with Electric Orange so far has taught us (keep in mind, we've never had an account like this before -- we admittedly continue to learn) that we should have incorporated credit scores into the criteria that we used to determine whether or not an account should be opened. So, we have built an account review process that considers that information and we've started to take action on existing accounts that do not meet our review standards.



    This does not affect any other accounts you might have with ING DIRECT. While we are unable to allow your account to remain open, please know that you are welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days. If you have any additional questions, please let us know.



    Thank you,



    Laura Records
    ING DIRECT
  • Destardi
    ***Simplemind (or anyone who received the account closing letter) question:
    How long after the AR credit pull was done, before you received the letter to close?


    My EO account hasn't been closed yet.
    05/18/2007
    I called ING, and inquired about the account closings that have been going on (my credit is shot due to losing my high income job, and going on unemployment for awhile) so I was worried.

    The CSR was friendly...but I laughed when she says "you have wonderful credit." I do NOT have "wonderful credit" so that shocked me.

    She said that "people were using the accounts not as ING intended; the EO is supposed to be used as a transaction account. She said they weren't using it to make bill payments, etc. She said some people were just dipping into the OLOC, and even THAT was going negative (past the credit line).

    My account has not been canceled *yet*. I have an automatic savings plan in place from another source, and my bi-weekly direct deposit primarily goes into the EO. I do pay car payments, cell phone bill etc out of it..but I do not maintain a high balance.

    We *know* a soft pull was done when we opened our accounts, because we all have varying amounts of a credit line available. It goes up to 1,000, and I've seen people with 165 available. That was determined by a credit check. I think the difference now, is that the actual approval process will refuse anyone with a low score, instead of assigning a low credit line.

    Should I close my account ahead of time, or not? Arghhh this is irritating.
  • Simplemind
    I wouldn't be as mad as if I received a nicely worded e-mail like that as my 30 day notice.

    They REALLY should have grandfathered in all of the current account holders. I had various checking accounts in the past. On a couple of occasions I was grandfathered into things like Fee Free Checking, even when they started charging fees. I was grandfathered in an interest bearing checking account when I no longer met the criteria for an interest bearing checking account. I was grandfathered into an account when all of a sudden I needed to hold a minimum average daily balance of $1,000..

    I can't really see how small OD protection balances of $100 to $300 would be a serious problem to a large bank institution like ING direct.
  • durablend
    Actually Destardi the amount of the OLOC depended on when you opened the EO account...the earliest ones got the $1000 and it slowly went down from there.
  • Destardi
    durablend, not questioning you, but how do you know this?

    Either way, a soft pull WAS done during the account process. It showed up on my credit report.
  • Simplemind
    I never had a soft pull on my report when my account was opened. If they did they would have saw my credit in the 450 to 475 range.Which is about as rock bottom as you can get.

    When did you start your account? As I understand it the credit check started sometime in March or April.

    My account started in December. A soft pull didn't show up till April 10th. My account was closed around May 11th or so.

    I thought the previous OD protection amount was determined by how long you had your account, and the balances you kept.

    A friend of mine got a credit card with a $40,000 balance transfer limit no interest for 36 months. He used the balance transfer check to write a $40,000 check to himself, deposited to ING Direct, collected a few grand in intrest, and paid it back. Based on that deal he got EO with $1,000 OD protection right away.

    I believe mine was $250.00.
  • Destardi
    I opened my account April 10th, and a soft pull was done then. Another one was done April 24th.
  • cluelessnomore
    Interesting reading. I too have an EO savings and EO checking. My credit is not so great, use to be in the 700 club, but medical expenses of a mother in law and pay her rent put a strain. Anyway, will see what happens, no emails as of yet from ING.

    Blah to the credit score snobs, people with real life un-expected financial expenses can have a credit score drop. This would be a small thing compared to who we really are, people, not credit scores. The credit scoring modles are set up for people to fail anyway, no late payments, or collections, I just have a low score due to the fact I closed a few credit cards with balances. The cards are not "Maxed Out" but since the accounts are closed, no available balance is reported, which gives the false illusion of being "Maxed Out". Ridiculious! Oh, I am white, collage educated and would never judge someone's character based on a credit score, unless I enjoyed building up myself based on others difficult financial situations.
  • I had my account "frozen" in mid-April.
    It took me 3 weeks (and an email cc'd to ING Direct's media contact)
    to get even a form email that my complaint was being forwarded to the "Customer Satisfaction Department".

    A few days later, I got an email from a "laura records" saying that they were sorry for my frustration and that they are "unable to open another account for you at this time" and that I was "welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days" which implies (but doesn't actually say) that my account is closed.

    Needless to say, I don't seem to have any recourse in this matter. Oh well...
  • Stahi
    Same thing happened to me, but I didn't get the "We're sorry" e-mail.

    I sent an e-mail venting my frustration and got the Laura Records e-mail, with:

    "We received your email regarding Electric Orange and would like to follow up to address your concerns. First, we are sorry for any frustration this has caused. As you know, Electric Orange is a new product for us. Based on information we have gathered over the last few months, we have decided that moving forward, we are making certain that a person's credit standing is part of our account opening review process. Additionally, we are taking action on existing accounts that don’t meet our review standards.



    Please know this does not affect your credit or any other accounts you might have with ING DIRECT. You can request a free copy of your credit information which is on file at the agency if your request is made within 60 days of the original notice you received. And, you can dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in that report. If you have any specific questions regarding your credit report, you can contact the agency directly using the following information:"

    Then it went to Equifax, yaddaydda.
  • Stahi
    The funny thing about this is that I was one of the ones that was OFFERED the EO before it was released to the public. Neat, eh?
  • Coll
    They closed my account, so I immediately transferred the negative amount back. I was one of the accounts they re-opened, and I was totally ticked off that they did. I certainly didn't tell them I wanted my account re-oponed. I had already cut up my card! But then I realized it might be slightly gratifying to transfer out $950 of the $1000 "spending power" they chose to give me again. So I did. :D
  • Dan
    So.. What if you still have an Overdraft Protection balance after the account is closed? I would assume the amount you owe for OD protection would be past due at the time the account was closed.

    What are they going to do? There's nothing in the terms that talk about late fees. It just says if you default you will be responsible for the collection costs whatever that means.

    What if they immediately zap the money out of your linked Checking account? Can they legally do that?

    I would think they can't report to the credit bureau unless you are 30 days past due. Due date would be the date your account is closed.

    I owe them $115.00 in OD protection. I am a little ticked. At first I was thinking of dragging my feet on paying them back.. Let them send me a few letters, let them give me a few collection calls.

    I guess defaulting on it for a little while would not be the best form of revenge. Maybe keeping 2 or 3 accounts open with a balance of a penny or two and requesting mailed monthly statements would be better.
  • Brent
    I am curious, say you had $10 in the account with $1000 of overdraft and made a purchase for $15. Now you're at -$5. Do they then allow you to make another purchase up to $995 or once you're in the negative is your card rejected?
  • Jen
    Nick and others,

    I feel bad for you, I really do. I can empathize with your situation -- you're trying to make things better and a company hits you when you're down... however... they didn't really treat you unfairly, any business can withdraw their offer of services at any time (unless it violates discrimination laws). Credit score is not protected like race, creed, sexuality or disability.

    Now, as someone who is white and college-educated (who earned scholarships, thanks)... let me offer a piece of advice (besides that whole "don't blame other people for your issues especially since you don't know what other people went through to become those scummy college-educated people you so deride").

    Just because someone offers you a line of credit doesn't mean you should take advantage of it. You know, I have a credit card with a $20,000 limit on it. How much do you think I have in balance? $0. Just because I have it doesn't mean I have to use it. I keep it to keep my credit score up. I use it monthly and pay off the balances. Occasionally I will carry a small balance (less than a hundred dollars) to show that I can pay off debt when need be.

    Let's face the reality of the situation: while you may see it as a line of credit, you're purposely allowing your checking account to fall below $0. That's negligent. You seem intelligent enough to realize that "spending power" is bubkas. I'm sure if you added all your credit cards in, your spending power would go through the roof... but that doesn't mean you're going to go max out your credit cards tomorrow. The reality is: Checking Account Balance is your money in your bank that you can withdraw for cash tomorrow, "OLOC Spending Power" is not. It comes with a hefty fee (12%?!) and should only be used in drastic emergencies. Using credit cards (or a line of credit) to pay for cable, cell phones, or groceries (unless you're trying to get the Visa Extras bonus and intend to pay it back at the end of the month) is not the best way to start rebuilding your credit. My suggestion is to try and reduce spending to encourage the elimination of the overdraft protection instead of relying on it (which is why ING let you go).

    That being said, to each their own. The company had every right to let you go, though reading through these articles has definitely made me think twice about opening a savings account through ING. I've heard FNBO is the National Bank of Omaha and is offering 6%.

    To Dan...

    If you owe them $115 on the Overdraft LOC and they send the "dogs" after you, you owe the collection agencies their fees. Meaning what? Meaning that if the collection agency charges ING $100 to get back your $115, you are responsible for it... not them. Thus, your $115 revenge on ING turned into a $215 payout. In addition, they CAN report it to credit agencies even if it is under 30 days. There are 1 - 30 days, 31 - 60 days, 61 - 90 day, etc. Most companies won't do that (if you're under 30 days), but they can... and ING certainly sounds like the type of company that WILL.

    In addition, if they send you TO collections, you will have that on your credit report for 7 years. Sending even one account to collections has a rather substantial negative effect on your rating/score.
  • Dan
    In response to your statement:

    I totally disagree:
    "In addition, they CAN report it to credit agencies even if it is under 30 days. There are 1 – 30 days, 31 – 60 days, 61 – 90 day, etc. Most companies won’t do that (if you’re under 30 days), but they can…"

    They really can't. When the account is closed, They can report you have a revolving credit line with them, it is maxed out, and full payment immediately due. That can knock down your score somewhat. THEY LEGALLY CAN'T report it unless you are 30 or more days past due.

    They probably can report it to Chex systems. Which has nothing to do with credit score, but you can't get another checking account unless that is paid off.

    If they send it to collections. A collection agency (by law) needs to give you a 30 day grace period to dispute or correct the problem before they report it to the credit bureau.

    But in short.. I will pay the damn thing off.. :)
  • Steve
    I know it is perfectly legal for ING to ask for full payment due immediately. It is their money. As with any creditor they have the right to ask for full payment due immediately at anytime. I personally think this is not ethical.

    It is ING's fault for not checking credit history. Some people have no concept how credit works, how to budget, or how to use it. A simple credit check from the beginning would have weeded out potential risks.

    I think it is awful for ING to ask for full payment of OD balance IMMEDIATELY.

    For most people who maxed out $1,000 or more. They will be unable to pay it back in 30 days. ING should at least give them a reasonable payment plan. I totally agree.. people who used OD protection should be obgliated to pay them back. But, ING should have been more careful selecting people.

    My EO account was closed. But luckily, I did not run an OD balance.

    As an ING Customer, I am angry they loaned money to unresponsible people.. AND

    I had a couple of credit cards yanked from me in my life. When the Card Company closed the account, my revolving payments stayed the same.
  • Nate G.
    I will pay ING back in small payments. If they can't accept a small payment they get NOTHING.

    I already have three items in collection, and a judgment against me. If ING takes me into collection big deal.

    I have no property or garnishable wages. They can wait to receive payment. Living expenses come first.

    My linked account to ING has already been closed.Go ahead and try pulling money out of that account.
  • gitana
    The same thing happened to me. I never used the overdraft protection and as soon as I saw the email I called them and asked what was up. How could they cancel a debit account? I was not mean, of course, and the very nice rep on the other end confirmed it.

    The next day I had the same email about, "So sorry, never mind, you have your Orange Account and overdraft again."

    I have been an ING customer for 4 years and I was disappointed, but I was happy to see they resolved the issue right away. I will stay with them because they have been really fantastic except for the one little instance. I can understand that businesses make mistakes.
  • munkydeaux
    Its fine with me if they want to check credit and deny an account but they should do this when you apply and then either open the account or not. Not let you use it for a few months and the all of the sudden close it! This is a terrible situation for someone who has been working hard to fix their credit.
  • Simplemind
    The 30 day notice my account will be closed as came and went. I logged back into my ING Account last night and found out my account is still active and my overdraft line is back.

    First time I received the e-mail notice my account will be closed. I contacted ING direct. They told me my account will be closed and they can't make any exceptions. I did not fit the criteria to have an Electric Orange Checking Account.

    When people were receiving e-mails saying. "We made a mistake".. I contacted ING to see if my account was closed by mistake. ING said there was no mistake on my account. I still did not fit the criteria to have an Electric Orange account. My account will still be closed. ING still can't make an exception with me.

    I also e-mailed customer service and got a response saying my account will be closed and no exceptions can be made for me to keep it.

    30 days has passed, I logged into my ING account and my checking account remains open. WITH THE SAME OVERDRAFT PROTECTION PRIVILAGES AS BEFORE. My overdraft protection as been reopened without notice and my account is still open.

    I am not thrilled about this. I probably will need to contact ING about closing this account. I already made arrangments and moved to another banking institution. I changed direct deposit, cut my debit card, closed my dozen other ING Savings Accounts.

    I contacted ING four times and they confirmed my EO account will be closed after 30 days. If communication and ethics are that bad, how can I trust them to handle my money?
  • mike
    you ran 15k out of your accounts within the last 7 months yet you live in $1000.00 overdraft...something doesnt add up
  • simplemind
    My OD was $250.00. I never really used it. AND.. I have two three other checking accounts besides ING.
  • simplemind
    sorry about that..

    What I meant to say is between my wife and I we have three other checking accounts. My branch, wife's account and business.

    I had a $250.00 in OD protection NOT a $1,000. I never "LIVED" on it. I didn't use it.

    My wife and I make a 6 figure income. And I had over a dozen small savings accounts. Only thing that is hurting us was credit score. I didn't keep A LOT of money in ING but it is a little wierd.
  • Ouch, Simplemind... that sounds like some pretty bad insurance. Just about every reputable insurance company has a cap on the 20% portion that you pay. With most policies, you won't pay more than $2000 (or close to that) in additon to your deductible. So even if you have a deductible as high as $5000, you would pay $7000 maximum, on a $200,000 bill. Or a $500,000 bill. There are a few crappy insurance companies out there that don't limit the 20% part, but if you have one of those, you should go shopping for insurance asap.
  • Henry
    Listen, this is what ING does:

    -If you open an account and use overdraft, or they feel it necessary, they will check your credit to make them feel safe in lending their money to you. If you don't have good credit, they don't feel safe giving you overdraft so they close your account.

    Why do they close your account? Because they have to give you overdraft, even if you don't want it. If they have a customer that has overdraft on an account and has bad credit history, they are a liability and can no longer be a member of the bank. Since they cannot simply take away the overdraft, they are forced to close your account.

    Believe me, ING wants you to use your overdraft, it makes them more money (more being the chief word here because they get enough from mortgage spreads.

    I'm sure you're going to start seeing more of those letters because banks are trying to cut down on their risky spending in order to minimize the amount they lose during the subprime mortgage mess. I understand what people are saying, I have a 733 credit score and cannot get a credit card for some reason, but anyway this is why they are cancelling people's accounts. Also, to the people who are using this overdraft protection liberally, this is what got the country into such a mess with these mortgages and you really need to stop doing it. For the love of god just get some better spending habits!!!
  • C
    Nick,

    Your comments about white and college-educated people are entirely inappropriate. Race and education has no part in this conversation. If anything, your comments show that you are irrational and are perhaps viewing your situation with ING in an unreasonable way.

    ING has every right to close ANY account at ANY time for ANY reason. It is in the terms of service.

    It seems that the customers who complained about horrible customer service experiences are the only people who have a legitimate complaint here. If the accounts of their experiences with ING are true (and I have no reason to assume they are not) then ING is clearly at fault. The story about trying to withdraw money after merging accounts is absolutely ridiculous. I would also encourage complaints to be filed and money to be taken elsewhere.

    I want to go back to Nick - it outrages me that you would say something like you did. Drawing race and education level into the discussion - and then calling people privledged - reflects extremely poorly on your character. Many people who fit that description have never been "privledged" in their lives and some have probably come from harsher backgrounds and overcome more adversity than you.
  • InspectorFox
    Just checking to see if anyone ever tried to request an increase in the Overdraft limit from ING. I need more spending power :)
  • Destardi
    Apparently, they no longer close accounts when your Overdraft line of credit is closed. I was told because of my credit rating (due to bankruptcy) they wanted to help me "save my money" so they closed out the Overdraft, and there is no problem with the account, or my debit card, and the account will not be closed.

    I haven't received any emails, etc stating this; I had to login to my account and notice the negative amount, with the Overdraft limit closed.
  • Divine
    I have also had my overdraft changed from $250.00 to $.00. This happen today. I logged into my account yesterday and it was there. I was a little worried so I called up and was told they check my credit report periodically and that was the reason why. The agent did not say anything about my account was going to be closed. I have a savings account with ING as well. The agent was very nice. I don't mind that they closed it I only used it once for $100.00 and it was placed back in 2 hours.
  • InspectorFox
    My overdraft changed from $250 to $25... will be calling ING later today to see what's the deal. My salary is direcltly being deposited to this checking account.
  • girlthree
    I received an email today stating that my account was OD by $10.00. I went into my saving to transfer the funds and only then realized that my OD has gone from $1,000.00 to $25.00. Called and got the same response, they are trying to help me save money and letters went out last night. I told the agent that it would have been nice if I received the letter first.
  • Susan
    All you need to do is fill out the request online to increase the line of credit. There is a credit check to do this though.
  • Yana
    I was actually horrified when ING closed my account months ago, when they did it to thousands of people with bad credit reports. Of course, I went back to ING after they recanted a week later, though I waited about a month. That kinda traumatized me, because I like ING so much.I just checked my overdraft line. It is still there and the same amount as before. I have a bad credit report and am making no efforts to change it, as I do not use credit at all. If I can't pay cash, I don't get the thing. And I don't deviate from that rule for a home or car, either. To me, it is not justified to do so, even though I do go without things. I would never use the overdraft line. Having bad credit is no biggie if one never intends to use credit, and it is protection from ID theft, which I already had happen in the late 90s. No way am I going to pay to clear that up. The credit bureaus ought to do something besides selling our info for marketing purposes, and then maybe consumers wouldn't have to do work they should be doing and spend money to attempt to clear up ID theft issues.
  • Dawnene
    I too had a $1000 Overdraft line on my Orange account, I went to log into my account this morning and there was a message saying "you have no active accounts with ING, please contact customer service" I was mortified since I had over $7,000 in my checking and savings combined (NOT counting the $1,000 overdraft) I called and they said that was a "mistake" a "glitch" and that everything was fine. When I got home tonight, I have an email from ING stating that they have reduced my overdraft from $1000 to ZERO - I never used the overdraft, not even once. I've never been overdrawn and have auto deposit of my paycheck and regularly contribute funds to my savings. My credit score is bad, about 575. I hope this is not the beginning of the end of my relationship with ING, I am just sitting here stressed thinking that they removed the overdraft and now they are probably going to close the checking account. It states clearly on the information FAQ page for the Orange Accounts that the Overdraft line is a critical component to the account. So...unless they have changed their policy after the thousands of poor folks who had their accounts closed several months back, I'm pretty concerned that I'm going to need to find another bank.
    Anyone have any more info on this?
  • Carl
    ING Round TWO...

    Enough of ING. Here we go again. I got my Over Draft Line of Credit ODLC reduced to ZERO today too. I used it just yesterday for the first time. This time they didn't close the Orange Checking just the ODLC. Mistake or not ING has issues.

    I am over it. NO MORE ING. E TRADE pays better interest than anyone on the net. E TRADE transfers your money faster than any other bank. Faster than HSBC, Capital ONE, WAMU and especially ING. Switch your savings to E TRADE.

    The best online checking and best BILL PAY is Bank of America. Absolutely the best BILL PAY out there bar none. If you just want a paperless checking HSBC has one...but, what it the point. I don't write many checks but there are times when you have to do so. Bank of America is the place to do checking with BILL PAY. E Trade is the place to save.

    ING is saving me money because I will earn more interest at E Trade and I will not be paying interest on an ODLC that I did not ask for in the first place. ING can just go back to HOLLAND or where ever they came from. There customer service people are not so nice. And the last time they closed accounts and then reopened some When I called I asked if this was going to happen again....the Rep. said that my Orange checking and ODLC was good for now but that could change. Change has come and now I am gone.
  • Doobles
    I was one of ING's customers with bad credit who's account was suppose to be closed.

    I paid my Overdraft protection and my account online reads $0.00.

    Seeing this forum is getting more active reminded me to contact ING tonight and ask why my account wasn't closed.

    They told me my account can't be closed because I still have a negative balance.

    I guess I owe $5.98 because of interest for using the Overdraft protection. I told them can you please change my balance to show this online? they said "No".. I then asked them if they could send me a paper statement. They said "No".. But they would take a telephone payment over the phone.

    According to my account I paid the overdraft protection in full on August 28th.. But they tell me my interest continues to accumulate on the $5.98 I owe them. Even though my online account does not show this.

    I am not too happy about this. For those who had accounts closed.. You might want to log in and check to see if your account is REALLY closed. You still might have accumulated a small interest even though your account does not show this.

    What happened to this once great company?
  • GELL
    I have never used the OD protection from ING and never asked for it. I opened an EO account when it was first offered as I had an ING Direct savings that I didn't use much. Anyway, I too received an e-mail stating my OD was being decreased to $25 - I don't care as I never used it nor did I plan to use it. What bothers me is that they said they did a hard pull on my credit. What gives them the right to pull my credit - they didn't when it was opened and I have never used it! I wrote them demanding an explanation. Really, that is all I care about; I actually want to close my ING accounts because they really aren't all that convenient to use and their services are extremely limited compared to other banks.
  • Anon
    I just had my overdraft of $250 eliminated. I was notified in an email that said it was because my credit score had dropped. So I rushed to check my report so see if my identity was stolen. My credit score is 784 and is better than 95% of people in the U.S. I don't think I have ever used the overdraft feature. I called ING, and they basically said they don't know what is going on and I should get a letter in the mail--which I expect will say the same thing as the email. Very strange.
  • Destardi
    Here is the email "letter" I received:
    Dear Josh,
    Customer Number: XXXXXXX574

    At ING DIRECT, we're committed to helping our Customers save their money by offering great deals and industry leading security. We hope you've had a great experience with Electric Orange so far.

    As you know, Electric Orange comes with an Overdraft Line of Credit that's connected right to your account. Since you've opened your Electric Orange, we have learned, based on information we received from a consumer-reporting agency, that your credit score is lower than we accept for the overdraft feature. As a result, we have reduced your Electric Orange Overdraft Line of Credit to zero ($0) and no further advances will be permitted. You will receive a letter in the mail within the next few days explaining the decision. We feel this action is in your best interest.

    IF YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING OVERDRAFT LINE OF CREDIT BALANCE:
    Since your line of credit has been reduced to zero, the only spending power you have in your Electric Orange is your deposited balance over $0. Given that there is a balance owed on your Overdraft Line of Credit, any future payments or transactions made using your Electric Orange MasterCard® Debit Card or any withdrawals (including Bill Pay, Electric Checks, and paper checks) will not be processed until you make a deposit that satisfies your Overdraft Line of Credit balance and brings your deposit balance above $0. Once that happens, you will be able to resume all account activities.

    To make a payment, you must make a deposit into your Electric Orange by following these steps:

    Login to ingdirect.com
    Select the "Transfer Money" tab
    Transfer the minimum amount required from your external linked checking account or other ING DIRECT account to your Electric Orange
    Please Note: Until a payment is made, be sure to adjust your bill payments (made through online Bill Pay or your Electric Orange Card) accordingly.

    In addition, this does not affect any other accounts you have with ING DIRECT.
  • Doobles
    784?? That sounds more like a Vantage score (which isn't a true FICO score).. 784 FICO score would be better than 99.9% of the population.

    If you have a 784 FICO congratulations.
  • Divine
    Received this letter in an email today. My account is still active. Strange thing is I have not used the overdraft since the first time I used it in Aug and that was paid back in two hours. There was a glitch with my direct deposit. Unless this is a generic letter I can’t see how they feel I owe any money.

    Dear,
    Customer Number: XXXXXXX
    At ING DIRECT, we're committed to helping our Customers save their money by offering great deals and industry leading security. We hope you've had a great experience with Electric Orange so far.
    As you know, Electric Orange comes with an Overdraft Line of Credit that's connected right to your account. Since you've opened your Electric Orange, we have learned, based on information we received from a consumer-reporting agency, that your credit score is lower than we accept for the overdraft feature. As a result, we have reduced your Electric Orange Overdraft Line of Credit to zero ($0) and no further advances will be permitted. You will receive a letter in the mail within the next few days explaining the decision. We feel this action is in your best interest.
    IF YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING OVERDRAFT LINE OF CREDIT BALANCE:
    Since your line of credit has been reduced to zero, the only spending power you have in your Electric Orange is your deposited balance over $0. Given that there is a balance owed on your Overdraft Line of Credit, any future payments or transactions made using your Electric Orange MasterCard® Debit Card or any withdrawals (including Bill Pay, Electric Checks, and paper checks) will not be processed until you make a deposit that satisfies your Overdraft Line of Credit balance and brings your deposit balance above $0. Once that happens, you will be able to resume all account activities.
    To make a payment, you must make a deposit into your Electric Orange by following these steps:
    1. Login to ingdirect.com
    2. Select the "Transfer Money" tab
    3. Transfer the minimum amount required from your external linked checking account or other ING DIRECT account to your Electric Orange
    Please Note: Until a payment is made, be sure to adjust your bill payments (made through online Bill Pay or your Electric Orange Card) accordingly.
    In addition, this does not affect any other accounts you have with ING DIRECT.
    Thanks
  • Beth
    Based on current economic conditions ING Direct has reviewed all EO accts and made decisions on a case by case basis what is an acceptable risk for their bank and us ING Direct customers. It is unfortunate that this had to happen, but it is understandable. I am sure we do not want our bank to go down like Net Bank did. They are looking out for not only the bank, but us as customers.
  • Jesse
    I just had my credit limit reduced from $1000 to $25. Most enfuriating for me was not the fact that I had such a reduction, but that they ran my credit! I just called to try and discuss this deception. I was unable to get someone that knew what they were talking about...After 4 years with the big Orange, I'm over it. My money is going to Emigrant!!
  • John
    Mine line of credit was reduced to zero from 1000 also. I did use the overdraft several times, though not any more than $10 and only for one day at the most. And I have no credit history, but the email said my credit rating was not high enough.
  • InspectorFox
    I think either ING is doing this intentionally to avoid risk or there is some technical glitch. I have my salary deposited directly into this checking account - i don't understand how do they see me as a risk even though my credit score is in the 600s.
  • Carl
    Beth...

    ING is only looking out for ING...not the customer. ING needs to go under like NET Bank...that would make my day. I wish they could receive and email telling them their accounts were closed and their line of credit revoked based on nothing. Credit score my behind. They haven't done any hard pull on credit. But, doing this twice to twice too much. ING isn't about their customer. I'd understand if one had defaulted on the OLC. But lowering OLC limit is uncalled for. Once an account is established and in good standing there is no reason to lower or close unless there is a default. What if your Credit Card lowered your credit limit without notice and for no good reason. What if your home equity line was reduced without notice and without good cause. No this is not the way to treat customers, it is not the way to treat people and no it is not the way to do business. Burn ING Burn.....take your coffee, take your oranges and lion and get back across the pond...Americans do not need ING.
  • Ihatebanks
    I logged into my EO account on Wednesday and saw that my OD LOC was $25 (it had been $250 since I opened the account). I have never had an overdraft and kept an average balance in the account of at least $1,500. I have had an Orange Savings acct since April 2006, and just recently purchased a $1,000 CD as well. There was no e-mail, no explanation. Then Thursday a.m. their ridiculous e-mail arrived, that they feel this action is in my best interest.

    I think the way they handled this was absolutely horrible. We were completely insulted that 1) they would treat us like we were deadbeats when we have been rock solid customers and have never defaulted on our account, and 2) they would take this action before they sent out any communication about it. On a side note, I had 2 bill pay checks mysteriously go missing last month, it took over 3 weeks for them to finally arrive.

    I have always been an avid fan of ING since I first opened my savings account and recommended them to many of my friends and family. No more. I will be shopping for another checking and savings account. Obviously having reliable customers who religiously direct deposit their money and use their products is not important to them. I wonder if it's worth sending them a letter, but I'm afraid of getting "blacklisted" like the poster above. Goodbye ING, thanks for nothing.
  • Tammy
    I agree. I thought I would NEVER be approved for their overdraft line. But I was and it was because they checked (my bad) credit and gave it to me. It was only $ 165 but it helped immensely, and it was a "line of credit" AND I had direct deposit every 2 weeks, so it was ALWAYS repaid - plus the small fees that they charged too. I finally thought- I was on my way to improving my credit score..which I have been working on for a year.
  • Doobles
    I think it would be in the best interest of ING to get out of the checking account business.
  • Angry
    Well - I just had this happen to me and I had no notice. I was sent and letter last week stating they were going to be pulling my overdraft after having my account since the day they starting offerring checking and my savings for three years. I also had direct payroll deposit which paid off any overdraft automatically every other Friday if needed. The letter also stated that I would still have continued use of all the other services ING offered and my checking account would remain open. Not the case. Today I went to pay for a co-pay at a doctors appointment and my card came up expired. Yeah - they closed it without telling me and now they are telling me it could take 2-3 weeks to get my money back. I am a single mom with two kids and ALL my money was in that account. They basically told me there was nothing they could do for me and I would have to wait for them to send me a check. They also told me they didn't have to notify me about closing the account because it is in their fineprint that they can close accounts at any time and basically hold my money hostage!
  • Tammy
    This was the reply I got from the Ombudsman today...
    Generic reply - no doubt.

    ***We received your email and wanted to follow up with you to address your concerns. Electric Orange was designed as a self-service paperless checking account equipped with an Overdraft Line of Credit. The Overdraft Line of Credit was designed to assist our Customers if they withdrew more than they had on deposit.

    From time to time, we review all of our lines of credit. The purpose of this review is to determine if, at the time of the review, the borrower meets the Bank's standards for maintaining a loan account with us. Based on this review of your account and information received from a consumer reporting agency, we decided to reduce your Overdraft Line of Credit.

    We encourage you to contact Equifax, the consumer reporting agency whose information we used, so you can obtain a copy of your most recent credit report.***
  • destardi
    "ANGRY," did they give you a reason for closing the account after saying everything else was still usuable/business as usual?
  • Aheula
    When I opened my ING account a year ago, my credit score was much lower than it is now. They closed my account in May; sent me an apology letter and I continued to use my account and $250 overdraft protection. I had faith that that was the end of it. Until this month when they randomly took my overdraft away and caused me late fees on bills I was paying with the overdraft (that was paid and used according to all agreements). It seems to me that they are unreliable and I am certainly closing the account. I don't know that the bank will be able to stand if everyone affected by this change closes their accounts. We shall see. Given the circumstances I suggest everyone (whether affected by the overdraft or not) withdrawl their funds and redeposit into a more reliable source.
  • cto
    That's not bad advice! My overdraft was $1000 and they took it away and demanded the money within 30 days and threatened me with reporting me to the credit agencies. I dont have bad credit and wasn't about to let that happen so I immediately transfered them the money. Then they gave me the $1000 overdraft back. I have not used it since and was way in the positive when they decided to yank the overdraft again. I just pulled ALL of my funds out. So did my sister and father and roommate. A bank can't survive without money, and they won't get to mess with mine again.
  • marehoop
    They did the same to me. They closed me out and took away my $1000.00. Then the next week I got a letter of apology and they re-instated my account along with the $1000.00 overdraft, then in October, I get another email stating they took away. I was not using it at the time but it would have been nice for notice. I plan to pull my funds once I get things established....
  • Tammy
    I have now opened an account with E Trade. The heck with ING. They have screwed a lot of people over.
  • Mike
    ING Direct must be doing something right! Almost 6 million customers that don't abuse overdraft protection and are responsible with their money. Maybe the people on this blog should look in the mirror :)
  • Lorraine
    A while ago (I don't know when), I opened up an Orange Savings account. I didn't do much with the account; a while later, they apparently closed the account due to inactivity. I have a daughter in college and was budgeting carefully at that point. Now, I'm in a better financial position, and tried to re-open the account. GUESS WHAT! You can't! If they had to manual close the account, they blacklist you from every being able to open another account with them. I called them twice, trying to talk to a different person, to see if I could get this lifted, but NO. They said the bank made a business decision that prohibits me from ever opening another account with them, ever. By the way, I have excellent credit, never bounced a check, always pay my credit card balances in full, etc. This bank is awful and I think others should know about it before considering doing business with them, even if their interest rates are good.
  • Destardi
    Mike...you're a simpleton.

    Maybe you should go back and reread every post on here. I can't explain any better than that, if you don't understand the point of the blog posts.

    Good luck.
  • Aheula
    Mike must work at ING. ING is a huge disappointment to all who bank there. Mike open up your ING account and let us know in one year what you think. As a representative of a customer who doesn't abuse overdraft and is responsible with money (unlike the 145 people who posted here) you would be a good guinea pig. Prove us wrong about the level of service and business ethics of ING Direct.
  • Aheula
    This is a quote from the ING webpage. Please be warned; do not buy the laptop.

    "How does the Overdraft Line of Credit work?
    The Overdraft Line of Credit covers you if you make a withdrawal that takes your Electric Orange balance below $0.00.

    Example: You have $1000 available in your Electric Orange. You want to buy a new laptop computer for $1,100. Since you have a $165 Overdraft Line of Credit available to you, you can use your Card to buy that laptop. The charge for $1,100 will be approved. Your Electric Orange balance will appear as -$100 on our website. You will now be paying a competitive interest rate on the $100 you have borrowed."
  • Nick
    I am the NICK that originally submitted this story, and I must let you all know, they did keep my account open, for some reason... I am probably not ever going to use it, but I am glad it costs them money to have my .16 cents in there.
  • D
    I read every post on this blog in the vain attempt of reducing the level of frustration in dealing with ING. As stated in an earlier post. One can be one "event" away from your account being closed.

    I understand a business utilizing your credit score to make a business decision. However, having zero negative activity and never using OD. Solely basing their decision for the EO account with just a number just doesn't feel right and leaves a person frustrated.

    All this due to the snowball affect on my credit created by medical bills.

    Exercise your rights and do business with an institution that satisfies you. I know I'm just one customer, at least I'm satisfying myself by taking my meager dollars elsewhere.

    I realize this is a late posting but I wanted to let any potential ING customers have a little more information. I've also rescinded all my personal recommedations to friends and co workers. Personally, very satisfied with HSBC.
  • Tammy
    Here is another Perfect example of ING not knowing what they are doing.

    On 12/24/07 my ING was closed. First they took away my overdraft then they "decided" to close my account.

    well, I complained to the BBB and one person called me (on the 23rd I believe) from the same "customer service" number. Since they closed my account without trying to resolve anything I figured "why bother."

    So get this - 15 minutes ago I got a NEW ING card delivered to me via Fed Ex! It was mailed to me on the 24th (same day they closed my accounts!)
    And was overnighted to me - for today.

    When I called ING to ask WHY... They had no idea.
    my accounts were closed - but they had NO IDEA why I was issued a new card...

    I am so glad I found another bank to keep my money in. They are unbelievable.
  • T. Rupert
    I live in Florida where the boom took place and you couldn't find a commercial office space or hire enough people in the real estate/mortgage/title industry some 18 months ago. That has all changed and it is only getting worse. One of these days the banks that think they are so high and mighty putting severe rules on YOUR MONEY...not theirs, YOURS, they will be begging anyone to put money into the bank so they can keep their jobs. After all if it weren't for the people none of these establishments would be in business. I personally can't wait to see some of these large corporations crumble and fall. Florida where I live is ranked 5th highest for foreclosures and it is becoming a ghost town....mortgage companies have closed, realtors have left the city and most of the title companies are not closed. It can all happen in the blink of an eye and leave us all wondering what happened. Even Donald Trump can fall hard.
  • me
    I've been trying for weeks to get ING to let me withdraw my money. Apparently, they've forgotten it's MY money. They keep on making me jump through loops. I've wasted so much time with them. Whatever you do, don't do business with ING Direct.
  • Bigcat
    Amtrustdirect works just fine for me. Very competitive E-savings & E-money market accounts every day - regardless of what the fed rate is at. Only takes two business days to withdraw funds back into my checking at my credit union.

    For the people commenting on how ING is in it for them, not for the customer.... Answer this one question... Are they a "for profit" entity? Like someone posted earlier, if you want a bank that will truly treat you like you are important to them, do all your banking with a local community credit union - where the money stays in YOUR COMMUNITY!

    Search out the knowledge that will help you all become financially more stable.

    Good luck!
  • Richard
    @Bigcat - You act as though "customer-service" and "for profit" can never be synonymous.
  • Bigcat
    I didn't say a for profit company can't give good "customer-service". I do applaud you for being able to use a word with so many syllables! What was that? Like 4?

    Now go out there and do your own DD! You know, read the fine print!!!
  • Richard
    Typical Internet idiot. Focusing on attacking the people, rather than the issue. Good for you.
  • Rob
    I've got to say it -- if you're a credit risk and live in the overdraft regularly you pretty much deserve what you get. ING may not have felt they needed to protect themselves originally when they offered these accounts, but the behavior of their customers was liking costing them a great deal of money. As part of their agreement to change the terms as they see necessary, they made a change. IMHO a person who is taking advantage of another person or institution is not entitled to complain when the situation has been ended by the other party. Quit complaining and be glad they don't still have debtor's prisons.
  • Carl
    Rob was it? It wasn't what! It was how ING Direct did what it did. Rob, be aware the next time you use any of your line of credits "LOC" for what ever reason from what ever source....they all have a right to change the agreement. Hopefully "they" will not change that agreement in the middle of your transaction without notice..... That is what ING did... Electric Orange Line of Credit may be tied to the Electric Orange Checking for overdraft protection; but it is in fact a Line of Credit that ING encourages its' customers to use. Debtor's Prisons were for people that did not meet their obligations....and that was not the issue either. The facts remain... ING SUCKS...and you have no idea what this thread is about. May god continue to bless you with your ignorance because you surely are not that arrogant or stupid.
  • cluelessnomore
    Debtor's Prisons, how cute. Guess you forgot America was and is built on debt. Take away the debt, watch Banks, Credit cards, and major industries and their boards of directors jump out the windows as profits plument. I have used my OD many times. Always repaid. Like the convience of a short loan when needed. Hope I don't drop a bar of soap in the shower as they cart me off to the dreaded Debtors prision. Shouldn't be alone long, with the Government coming soon behind me.
  • Bigcat
    I apologize for working Richard into a lather on wednesday. I didn't mean to upset people - okay maybe just one - by telling them to be responsible for their own actions. If that makes me an idiot, boy i'll take that definition anytime. I guess never having used OD/LOC's must be why my FICO score can't get past that last .1 to .2% of the population.

    My point from the beginning is simply that anytime you agree to accept terms, you should read them thoroughly and know what could happen if you don't follow the rules you have agreed to.
  • Sarah
    I think what you are forgetting is that there are many people who DID follow the rules. ING stated that no credit check would be done (which, IMHO, was stupid to begin with but anyway...), and that if the ODLOC was used, it simply had to be paid back and you would pay interest. I was one of many people who used it (I don't like credit cards b/c I know myself too well and occasionally used it for work expenses--which all got paid right back as soon as I got that expense check), followed the rules, was not living outside my means, and still I was on that account closure list, albeit the one where the accounts weren't closed after all. My point, again, is that some people DID follow the rules and still got screwed in an unprofessional manner.
  • cluelessnomore
    It seems most everyone here is being responsible. Just another arrogant remark from a Fico snob. I have an average Fico score not excellent. Various reason, none which include irresponsibility. I have had a very high Fico score before and proberly will again one day when this storm of life passes. But I do know for sure I have never bragged or would base my character or spiritual being on a score based used for credit rating.

    The ING closings made no sense or have rhyme or reason to the people they choose to keep open or close. They have kept my account open?
  • josh
    Comment 154, "Rob"

    You should be thanking God they don't lock up people without empathy.

    Let me clue you in on something...Not having the ability to put yourself in others' shoes, and viewing life from their vantage point is a horrible lack of information.

    Also, "Rob", poor reading comprehension in addition to lacking empathy must make you one cold kinda guy; sort of like a neo-conservative authoritarian. Makes me wanna see what happens when YOU lose your job, have a medical problem, or someone in your family experiences it, and exceeds your insurance coverage, OR lose your job, and THEN have a major medical issue balloon your debt. Is that where the rest of us normally human, warm-hearted types can go "nener nener told ya so!"?

    Seeing things in black and white must be a terrible way to live...sort of lacks a 3 dimensional view of human life.

    What part of "closed my account because of credit score", not OLOC, did you miss?

    Sorry man, but your chastizing others for situations that you have no idea actually exist takes big cojones, and little brains.
  • Bigcat
    For now, ING has paid a price for their previous policies, and many consumers have learned a valuable lesson in what can happen at any time when you agree to certain terms.

    I hope for everyone's sake that some day we all can reach a point in life where everything is fair. Until then, I wish you all good luck dealing with how nasty life can be.
  • todd
    Recently it became possible to "freeze" your credit with the credit bureaus so no one can access it. Wonder what ING would do then? They request a SSN to report interest to the IRS and then abuse having it by accessing your credit report. Sounds like dirty pool to me.
  • John
    I have recently closed my ING DIRECT accounts after their shady business practice, i would recommend anyone who's thinking of converting to an ONLINE BANK from their traditional B&M to hold that thought.
    John
  • Joe McNally
    I don't know anything about this specific case. But I do know that ING has lied to me and that they are, in effect, stealing money from me. Serious charges I know, but hear me out.

    I was one of my customers that ING "inherited" when NetBank went belly up. I received documents from ING shortly thereafter (fall of 07'). I had 4 CDs at ING. Once I received those docs I called ING and their customer rep told me that, because of the special circumstances of the funds transfer (over which I had absolutely no control!!) I would be allowed to "break" my CDs at any time (not just within 30 days, but anytime!!), without penalty. I wanted to adjust the maturity date of the CDs to more conveniently create a CD ladder for my son's college education, making all of them come due in early June in anticipation of paying tuition over the summer of '09 thru '12. So I made a reminder in Outlook to call ING in early June of '08 to do just that. The reminder came up...I called ING...and they told me that I would have to pay a penalty. Needless to say, I am removing all funds from this bank.

    They lied...plain and simple. And they are stealing money from me by making me pay a penalty for "breaking" my CDs...after they had told me they would do no such thing.

    Do not do business with these people.
  • christine
    Hi Joe, I can absolutely 100% sure that netbank customers were not told that they change their CD terms at anytime. You were suppose to either take your cd's out at the time of conversion or wait till it matured. Why would you call 7 months later to change the CD when the takeover occured in Dec. I am sure there is more to your story, please do not bash when without telling both sides.
  • Joe McNally
    I was told that. Why did I wait?...because I wanted the maturity dates to be in June...so the funds would be available at an appropriate time to pay college tuition, etc.

    How can you be "...100% sure..."??...you weren't listening to my conversation with the ING rep who told me that. The take away lesson is...if it ain't written down, it hasn't been said. What bothers me is that the ING rep was slimy enough to lie to me in order to keep my funds for another 6 months. In don't treat clients like that.

    Both sides? What is the other said except lies...a lie 7 months ago...and a lie now denying the lie 7 months ago? If you wish not to believe me, so be it. I have no proof. But I can tell you that after that conversation, I set up a reminder in Outlook, reminding me to "break" my CDs and set up a new CD ladder in early June...now why would I do that if I hadn't been told I could break the CDs sans penalties? Do you think me delusional?

    Believe me, if the rep hadn't told me I could "break" penalty free at a later date I would have cashed them in right then.

    Some bankers do lie...I know that for a fact. You are, of course, free to believe as you wish. But sometimes, someone has to say..."the emperor has no clothes..." when all around us everyone says how beautiful his gown is...and he's really naked as a jaybird.
  • Former ING Employee
    Joe and Christine.

    I was an employee if ING Direct at the time that they aquired Netbank directly involved with the Sales and Service side of the business. There were multiple times that information was told to customers that were correct at the time and then policies changed. From what I understand, Joe should be at no fault for a penalty. ING is known for policy changes to protect the bank quite often. I can honestly say that the only safe product they offer is the Orange Savings Account. Because there are no strings attached.

    --- Joe that is rediculous that they can not make an exception for you due to the issues that you have had to deal with the Netbank conversion. It ended up being a partial disaster for all parties involved.

    ---Christine, I would check where you recieved your information from. It is 100% incorrect.
  • christine
    All of the phone calls are recorded so you can actually call and have the conversation listened to and in some cases you can listen to the call yourself.
  • nightwatchman
    To Anon or anyone who feels the way he feels: If you're going to help, then help, if not, shut up. You sound like the type who would callously say to a drowning man "why are you screaming, you should have learned to swim while you had the opportunity"!! I'm also willing to bet that you will even defend your right to act so cold!! "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks"
  • Ranger Bob
    Hello.. Its been 18 months since my account was closed. I wasn't happy. But eventually I got over it. There were MANY other banks begging for my business. Maybe its time everyone else moved on as well. ING will eventually pay for what it did to many of its customers. They won't get my business anymore and I won't recommend them. End of story.
  • Tubbs
    This is crazy. ING makes money on overdaraft fees. anyone who thinks that ING is looking out for their customers by filtering out the "deadbeats" should buy this bridge I'm selling in Brooklyn.
  • Christine
    No I am correct but I guess one too many errors would explain why you are a former employee.
  • aann
    When you open the electric orange account online or by phone it clearly states that your credit will be pulled and your credit must meet the requirements before the account is open. It also states that your credit will be looked at randomly to make sure you still qualify for the account. ING is great! Sorry Nick but it is your fault. People who make this mistake probably didnt listen to the associate or didnt read the terms and agreements ( by the way you have to read the terms and agreements before the account is opened as well). If you dont believe the associate didnt tell you that the credit would be pulled then call and have the call pulled to found out. Its that easy.
  • Aann: You probably didn't realize this, so I'll forgive your ignorance, but that was NOT in the TOS when I signed up for this OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AGO!! When you are on the internet, please look at the DATE of a posting if you are going to reply to something, so you can remember to look at things in context, and you will make a more informed post.
  • simplemind
    When the EO accounts were initially offered the terms said Overdraft Protection WITHOUT ANY credit check. I guess you didn't read the entire blog or didn't understand the point of it all. The terms were changed and the people who had an under the previous terms were never "grandfathered" in.

    I read the terms and agreements before I opened an account. "No Credit Check" were the origional terms. That was the entire point of the blog.
  • I've had a series of hitherto inconceivable violations of policy committed against me and my accounts there. I had two CDs, a savings account, and a checking account. My husband had one CD, and a checking account which we shared [both names and both social security numbers attached].
    Today, I have one CD, one savings account, and one jointly held checking account. My husband closed my other accounts and opened new accounts in his name alone with the proceeds, then [destroyed all my shoes, most of my clothes, books, and furniture, broke my foot and knee, destroyed the surgical recontruction of my previously injured right hand and ruptured ligaments and cartilage of my left, and tried to push me out of the house we shared, leased in my name. then he went to jail, for two hours, which is when I discovered the changes made at the bank and immediately changed my passwords, but] attempted to gain control of my remaining accounts, which accounts were frozen as he'd made the maximum allowed attempts using incorrect passwords. ING froze my access to my accounts, not just his access: they required that I use a new ING generated PIN, and delayed providing it for 10 days. When I received the new PIN, I was advised that they were holding all of my accounts, at my husband's request, pending submission of a document granting him ownership and total proceeds of all but the jointly held checking account.
    I won't quote the diverse written policies broken here, but merely offer that ombusman reps repeatedly deny knowledge of any policy at all. Their manner is so unprofessional that one might presume they are not an accredited, insured financial institution headquartered in NL at all but are more likely a Romanian laundering outfit. Every request for information, every attempt to provide documentation, every single encounter with ING Direct's fraud unit is not just time wasted; it's engagement of the sort of obstreperous bullying covered by 8 different State of CA civil codes. And that's likely how I'll recover / spend the funds in question.
  • Denny
    I have been with ING for over a year now and never had a problem until last week. I am presently deployed in Iraq. I use sharebuilder linked in my ING banking account and when I tried to buy some stocks last week, I was blocked from the sharebuilder account. I called ING and they said because I am overseas I cannot enter the ING/Sharebuilder website. We really sucks because I have thousands of dollars in their brokerage and have no access to it. I am presently trying to figure a way for my attorney to gain access to my stock account to remove all my investments and money markets from ING and transfer them to other brokers. When I called the man just said sorry but the computer picked up you were not in the USA and so access is denied. I told him I needed to withdraw my funds and he said sorry sir but you can not do that from overseas. I do not have R&R for 5 month so cannot get to my money unless my attorney can access my accounts. As soon as I remove the money from ING brokerage I intend on removing all accounts from ING and transfering to E-trade.
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