Ginger is a fashionista in her late 20s—a wife and graduate student striving to have it all. She wrote this article for Consumerism Commentary, but Ginger also publishes the blog Girls Just Wanna Have Funds, and you can subscribe to the blog’s RSS feed here.
Let me preface this by stating that I am not suggesting that women marry solely for money, I am after all a believer in love and commitment as a solid foundation for marriage. However, I am suggesting that women who marry partners that are financially savvy, motivated by money and have aligned views about their attitudes to money, are indeed smarter than their counterparts who don’t when choosing a life partner. I will detail the benefits of choosing a partner that has a solid financial plan in place and uses money as a tool and not a crutch.
Financially Savvy
Women who choose financially savvy partners fare better than their counterparts who don’t. Why? These women know that in order to have a marriage built to last that finances play a huge role in the viability of the marriage. I know it sounds like we’re discussing a corporate merger but bear with me; after all, marriage in some respects is like a business.
1969 Inc., said it best when asked for her insights to marriage,
It’s like running a corporation. A business venture. You have to go into it knowing that it could fail or it could succeed beyond your wildest dreams and make you rich… If the employees don’t share the vision, believe in the vision and work together, the endeavor will fail. Some businesses will get rich. Some will barely make ends meet. Some will never make a dime. The money does not measure success. The sense of accomplishment will come from the daily struggle… the love of what you do, working together day in and day out.
The reality is that personal finance issues are the leading cause of divorce and in order to live happily ever after, you must be on the same page as far as your finances are concerned. No, if, ands or buts about it. Capisce?
So what makes these women smarter?
Aligned Financial Values
When smart women meet a partner, they aren’t wooed by good looks and the smooth talk, after all those come a dime a dozen. These women are looking at how their potential partners spend money. Does he have an emergency fund? Is he current on their monthly bills such as the car payment and rent/mortgage? Does he spend more than he earns? They’re listening keenly to understand how their potential mates relate to money. Is it a tool? Is it a crutch? They know the difference and conduct business accordingly. Should the potential mate fall into the category of the above mentioned then it’s time to say good-bye. After all, who wants a man who isn’t interested in learning how to manage his money effectively? They are in it for the long haul, not a few cheap dates.
Motivated by Money to Create the Life They Want
Smart women are up to date on the latest issues in personal finance. They understand rate chasing, investing for the long haul and understand that while they may have substantial savings, practice and embrace frugality. They look for similar if not the same qualities in their potential mates. Smart women want to be able to relate not only on a romantic level, but also on issues regarding personal finance.
A Man with a Plan
Who wants a man with no financial plan in place? I certainly don’t. Where does he see himself in 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Is he thinking long or short term? That answer will determine the course of the relationship. Ideally he should be able to think past next month’s car payment and project how much he will have in his savings account by year’s end. This an expectation for smart women, not a hope or a dream, but something they demand and require in a potential mate.
Take a few minutes to let it all sink in. Gone are the days when gold diggers were secretly envied because they were able to go for the gusto and stifle high pitched screams during musty sex with a shriveled up oil tycoon. Move over and make way for women who are in control of their financial destinies and not afraid to say it. They are armed with a positive net worth and not afraid to flaunt it.
Are you a smart woman?
If you liked this article, read more from Ginger at Girls Just Wanna Have Funds.
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Marriage like a business ? I know this is a financial blog, but honestly, a business you can close if it doesn’t return as you expected. I certainly hope you don’t view your marriage this way.
For a second there I thought it was going to be the return of Lynzee Stauss. whew
You make some good points but I can’t let you off the hook that easily.
Why is the focus on the man making the money and having the plan? Is this 1958 or 2008? Yes, it’s important find someone on the same wavelength financially but if the woman wants to be in control of her financial destiny then shouldn’t she take the reins? Stop relying on the man, there’s not much he can do that you can’t go out and do yourself!
I suppose this is a response to the whole man-child phenomenon we are seeing in recent decades. You certainly don’t want to be stuck married to one of these guys. But the thing to keep in mind is that people change, they grow up. That doesn’t mean you should waste time waiting around for a man-child to grow up, but it also means he may get his act together eventually and turn into marriage material according to your criteria.
Finally, I’d like to point out that being married to a type-A guy (you know what the A stands for, right?) who is “go-go-go career-career-career” is not always what it’s cracked up to be. My wife knows tons of SAHMs who are raising their kids (essentially) alone, driving luxury SUVs, sucking down lattes. It’s a great life except for the part where their husbands spend more time at work and on the golf course than they do with the kids…but that’s what you sign up for when you marry a guy whose got a plan and is “motivated by money.”
As I asked before, why put your destiny in the hands of some guy? Make your own destiny and find a sweet, caring guy to be a SAHD to your children. This world needs more SAHDs!
Communication is more basic than financial savvy. People can be happily married while living very meagerly—if they decide that’s what they both want to do.
Plus, a healthy marriage recognizes the gifts and weaknesses of each person. It may just be the case that the husband isn’t particularly gifted with thinking ahead with money, but he might have compensating traits.
In the end, it doesn’t matter—because it’s quite hard to change who you’ll fall in love with anyways ;)
Communication is the bedrock, and finances are built upon it.
I’m going to side with the other commentators here… Focusing on a man’s financial savvy isn’t really what you should be looking for when dating. Sure, having money is great, and having money skills is important to. But marriage is most certainly not a business, and those who view it that way will either be unhappy, or end up in divorce court.
Take control of finances together, and you’ll (both) be much happier in the long run.
While I definitely don’t think you should marry FOR money or financial savvy, the absence of such would be a red flag for me. The number one cause of marital strife is money/finances. Why stack the cards against yourself if you don’t have to?
I would have run in the opposite direction if my hubby had tons of debt and poor financial management skills. i wanted (and got) a man who shared my same values and financial values is one of those.
I love that I can talk extensively about money with my boyfriend. He inspired me to invest even more in my 401(K) and I alerted him to the need to move his substantial savings into an account with a real interest rate.
Money and relationships is another example where the social taboo against talking about your finances can really hurt you. The problem most people have when they go into a marriage isn’t that they don’t share financial values – it’s that they don’t even know what their partner’s financial values ARE!
If you can’t bear your entire financial life to someone, and have them do the same, you should not be marrying them. Finances tie into so many other important parts of a marriage.
Of course, people will say that I have no idea what I’m talking about, being young and un-married – but I like to think I’m observant about the marriages of the people around me and I can definitely tell you that money is the absolute number 1 source of marital tension that I see.
I would have to agree with savvy – a lack of money in a man would be a red flag to me and I’d run the other direction. I probably wouldn’t have fallen in love with my husband if he’d been the type who didn’t have dreams and aspirations which included being financially successful. Because we have both followed our career dreams and are on the road to financial success our marriage is much stronger. We’ve been together 13 years and we are still madly in love. We never argue, never. There is simply nothing to argue about.
Great post!
First off, to the other readers, I don’t think she ever so much as implied that money is the most important factor when dating. Maybe you can’t choose who you fall in love with, but love alone isn’t enough—I’ve known lots of women in bad relationships who love their partners, but that doesn’t mean that they should stay with them.
Nor did she say that women should worry about the guy’s money skills but neglect their own. There is plenty of info on that topic elsewhere.
Nor do I take her article to say that you should only look for rich guys. There are many rich people who have awful money skills and blow it all, while there are plenty of poor people who do remarkably well with what they have.
Nor is someone type-A just because they work hard and take care of their money.
So, yes, I definitely agree that you should consider how a man treats money. Is it the most important factor? No—but it can be very telling when it comes to other aspects of his personality. Plus, if a guy sucks at handling money now, he’s not going to change overnight (and maybe not at all).
I’m with this post up to a point. The Dual Income No Kids lifestyle has its allure…
However, I can predict how hollow that existence will be 15,20,30 years down the line. I aspire to be wealthy and I now that my wife likes that aspect of my personality, but it is a small part of who I am. If that was what she was worried about first, and the rest later, I don’t know if I’d be happy with that.
There is such a thing as two people who are opposites balancing each other out. If I were single I’d save 40% of my income, but because I have her in my life she brings be back to reality and we strive (but rarely hit) the 20% savings mark.
I guess my point is that all types of relationships can work, and wealth can be created even when one spouse is not actively involved in the process. As others have commented, communication is important, and I would add that so is balance in the relationship and in the individuals involved.
Adfecto,
I don’t understand what this has to do with DINKS… Maybe I missed something, but I didn’t read anything in this post that said that the goal was DINKS, just as she didn’t say that women should be SAHMs or guys should be SAHDs. The point, as I read it, was that women should at least consider a guy’s money skills as part of the package.
While people can certainly balance each other out, there are limits. In the end, if they don’t have complementary goals, there’s going to be trouble. And if either of them isn’t wise about their money, there’s going to be trouble. I’ve seen it happen time and time again: one person is a big spender, the other watches in horror as their hard-earned money disappears into debt. They don’t balance each other—one sucks the other dry! And yes, in some cases, one person is far too miserly and makes the other person miserable. That doesn’t work any better.
Bottom line, I don’t think anyone should get married before at least knowing where their partner stands when it comes to finances, and considering how that will work with their own ideas about money. (Not that it can’t work out if they disagree, but compromises may be necessary.)
Thanks for the mention! I know men understand rate chasing as well :)
Thanks for all the feedback! MY apologies for getting back to all of you so late, Im just getting in the door.
Anyhoo, just to address concerns about it seeming as though I am promoting ONLY thinking about men in terms of their wallet… that isnt the case and I made that clear, hopefully in the first few sentences. I really wanted to drive home the importance of selecting a mate with a healthy attitude towards personal finance.
@ Toby—I think there are a few directions we could go with but that’s my main point. Not to promote women being in their marriage alone as that is another story, not quite the focus I had here in the post. Still, a good point.
@ Ryan, I agree.
@ Llama Money—that excerpt was simply an analogy not to be taken literally. However, there are salient points to be taken from that excerpt which I certainly agree with it only because at times it is like a partnership that you have to keep fostering to make sure that it works out. that’s my take on it. I didn’t mean it to be literal.
@ Meg- THANK YOU!!!! LOL!! This is exactly the point I was trying to convey. I in no way wanted to imply anything else than what was written here. This has nothing to do with DINKS-SAHMs or SAHDs. Just that a woman should be looking into HOW a man manages money and not HOW MUCH money he has… Adfect, I hope that clears it up for you.
What I also find interesting…. of those that have posted that I can tell from the names and writing style…that are women, they agree with the basic point and sentiment of the post. The men who have responded seem to disagree and quite frankly resist the idea of a woman looking at them in this manner. Moreso I guess what it can infer…. a woman possibly coming into the relationship with some financial savvy about her. Is that an issue? Is is threatening?. Just something to think about.
Eh. I think what matters more is that he’s willing to be open and communicate with you about it. Not everyone is evenly matched as far as financial interest and savvy. What matters is that the two of you can talk, that he’ll (or she’ll) listen to you, and that if you’re the one who does all the research and such he goes along with it most of the time and that he’ll share reasons and listen to your counterarguments if he disagrees.
I married a man with a lot of student loans. I knew, however, that other than his loans, car payment and small credit card debt (under $900) he didn’t have bad spending habits. His financial character was good.
He says that it’s great I’m interested in financial stuff, so I have financial reigns. I just communicate with him about what I’m doing and why and I try to teach him important things as I learn them.
Financially speaking I don’t know if marrying him was a wise choice (though if we divorce, I’m still debt-free). But in all other ways, he’s an excellent and supportive partner, a great conversationalist, loving, etc. So I think it was definitely the right choice.
I wouldn’t marry a guy who spends wildly and beyond his means just as I wouldn’t marry a guy who drinks a lot. But I don’t think we both have to be on the same financially savvy page as long as we communicate.
You’re very welcome, Ginger! It still surprises me how much some people try to read between the lines for something that’s just not there—and miss the point as a result.
I also suspected that there might be a gender split when it comes to attitudes… though it’s hard to tell.
Obviously, I’m a gal. For those that don’t know me and my blog, I’m a young married woman, married now for over 6 years. Our finances are far from perfect, but I look around and realize how fortunate I am to be married to a guy who does have a healthy and admirable work ethic, who does has similar financial goals, who understands the basics, and who isn’t a complete spendthrift. I would hate to be married to a guy that put our future in jeopardy with poor financial planning or obsessive overspending.
That said, we’ve been working more on communication lately so that we can work together to improve our financial situation. No matter who plugs in the numbers, it takes both people working together to make things work.
Again, I highly recommend talking about finances in depth before getting married.
@ Meg-Agreed. We have had our ups and downs as well and I can say that we have for the most part been very open about finances and the impact that it can have on our relationship.
Communication is a basic aspect of all good marriages and partnership so that wasnt even in question. Moving past all the “givens” and “must haves” in a relationship…where are you financially? How savvy is your partner? Knowledge is just as good as communication. This was never meant to make anyone feel “less than” if their mates don’t have all the characteristics noted in the post but its definitely something to think about.
My husband has made great progress in his attitude towards personal finance but he also taught me a few things along the lines of real estate investing and career. He came into our relationship with large profits after selling his home before the bubble burst. While he was savvy enough around real estate, he didnt know what to do with it. That’s where our personal finance journey started. So yes communication is really key to making sure that this aspect of your relationship works.
Perhaps the title is misleading then? The title suggests that money be the main focus of courtship, while the article tries to get away from that.
Curiosity makes me ask, why, in today’s world, is it still expected that the man be the primary breadwinner / financial expert? Do you suggest that men also only seek women who are financially secure and have their financial future all planned out?
Not to sound sexist ( though this probably will sound that way ), but if men only married women who were financially secure and great with money, there would be a whole lot more single people in the world today.
Did you miss this part of the opening paragraph:
Let me preface this by stating that I am not suggesting that women marry solely for money, I am after all a believer in love and commitment as a solid foundation for marriage.
Please take the article at face value. I am already assuming that women are already financially stable and savvy and that they seek partners who are like them in this respect. Nothing more nothing less. Please don’t read more into the article than already stated. I think this is where one can get a bit carried away in assumptions.
No where in the article did I state that the man should or would be the breadwinner. I stated that he should have his financial house in order. I suggest nothing more or less than what was stated.
Regarding your last sentence, a lot of us would be better off and would be able to avoid divorce if we considered this aspect of our lives before jumping the broom. Man or woman, your financial house should be in order.
Heh, I read the opening point. But further down you state:
“When smart women meet a partner, they aren’t wooed by good looks and the smooth talk, after all those come a dime a dozen. These women are looking at how their potential partners spend money.”
That sort of points you back in the other direction – money is more important than chemistry and physical attraction. Money matters, but being attracted to, and “clicking with” someone is more important.
Not at all…you missed this part:
“how their potential partners spend money”
How meaning, are they saving….spending more than they earn…saving for retirement etc etc
Good looks and the smooth talk are superficial and come a dime a dozen. “Clicking” with someone or chemistry is a given.
You’re definitely reading more into the article than what I stated :-)
Excellent post. That butterflies in the tummy feeling does not last forever—you also need to have a working partnership in addition to the love to make a marriage last.
Chemistry, lust, physical attraction, etc. are not at all hard to find and definitely shouldn’t be the basis for marriage. Marrying a man (or vice versa if you’re a man) who spends frivolously would make it extremely difficult achieve financial security.
Marrying a poor money manager then hoping that “love” will make it all fall into place is a bit Cinderella-ish.
I think Mrs. Micah hit the nail on the head when she said her hubby’s financial character is good. I think that’s what Ginger was trying to say. We can’t all marry someone who is debt-free but I think there’s a big difference in marrying someone who may not make or have much money but manages it wisely vs marrying a spendthrift.
I don’t think both people have to be equally financially savvy but there has to be good financial character and an openness/willingness to learn (or follow).
Llama Money,
Like Ginger said, good looks and smooth talk is definitely a dime a dozen. I’ve met more than a few of them that turned out to be abusive to their girlfriends/wives. Bottom line, chemistry isn’t everything, either—especially when you’re talking about a lifelong commitment. And while being bad with money might not sound like “abuse”, at some levels it can be—and it can also be an early sign of an abuser.
Of course, there are nice looking guys that are nice and have a financial plan. I’m married to one.
But if I were looking for a partner again…
All else being equal, I’d prefer the guy that knew that credit cards weren’t “free money” and didn’t spend every penny he brought in. And in fact, a guy like that would easily beat out better looking guys that don’t think about their financial future at all.
As for your earlier comment, I do think that society (at least in the U.S.) does expect the guy to be the primary breadwinner and handle the finances. That does seem unfair considering that women can do the job just as well—and often do. Whatever society expects, though, I think women should make sure that they educate themselves about finances.
Also, there’s more to “clicking” and “chemistry” than looks. That might work for the first few minutes, but there are many things that can be huge turn-offs, like not leaving a tip when the service was great, or constantly asking for money because they really couldn’t afford the huge t.v. they just bought.
Personally, a great mind and a great heart are bigger turn-ons for me—and they tend to last a lot longer than good looks.
“Not to sound sexist ( though this probably will sound that way ), but if men only married women who were financially secure and great with money, there would be a whole lot more single people in the world today.”
I second that! I’m 35, never married. No debts, except for mortgage. Make a pretty good salary that most two earner families live on. Maxed out on 401k. Etc…
For all the women I meet that are looking for “financially secure” men, I can count MAYBE two of them that actually had their own financial house in order. Go figure.
So I’m being “smart”. And staying single.
I agree that smart women marry “for money” and I also agree with Single that smart men should do the same.
I’m working hard, saving, and building a good income—and I am certainly not going to marry a man who doesn’t do the same but happens to have an affinity for Lexus and Niemen’s. And I wouldn’t expect any man to do the same.
(PS, this is my first comment on this site – I’m not the same Meg as above!)
Oops, forgot this was a guest post. the above is not my first comment on CC – just on this post.
If I were a man, I would not want a partner who views me as a meal ticket. I would respect a partner who considers fiscal responsibility a priority and shares the efforts toward maintaining that in the marriage. I would cherish a partner that is more to me than either a parasite or a business partner – someone who I am compatible with whom I share much more than financial goals. It’s about so much more than money. Who says that you win by acquiring the most toys? But to be clear, I have no issue with the idea of avoiding irresponsible potential partners. Fiscal irresponsibility, just like all other types of irresponsibility, is a fair weeding criteria.
Well said, HD! I think that’s exactly what Ginger and I are trying to say!
This article is little more than an intellectually disinjenuous Victorian era justification for selfaggrandizement. Women shouldn’t marry “solely” for money? Its the whole little bit pregnant thing. And, men that are “motovated by money” are “smarter” than their counterparts that aren’t. Actually men who are driven by money are not only some of the most boring bumps on a log one could ever wish to be subjected to but they usually aren’t around much to share their intellectual narrowness with you. I don’t know, maybe that’s a plus. The smartest people on earth often have the least financially to show for it-scientists, artists, writters, composers, etc. But more troubling than the notion that American women should in 2008 be shopping for a husband is the deceptive nature of her advise. Directness of communication and financial savvyness are laudible qualities for men and women. Openness and honesty are indespensible. But I’d like to see the author put it into practice. If my girlfriend were to intimate the kind of intentions the author promulgates in this article I could not take her seriously and would feel as HD mentions above. Brava HD! Savvyness is great but you have to be able to pull your own donkey, or agree on an arrangement based on who does what best and where each other is, independant from your love or feelings for one another (nearly 1/3 of married men is a SAHD). Love and money don’t mix. Neither is a substitute for the other nor should it be an inducement in any way. I’m sure that financial problems would not plague American relationships as much as they do if financial status were not as exalted as it is. Couples have a mutual duty to be responsible, demonstrate their industry how ever they best do it and to not be a spendthrift. Not to produce wealth or the promise of it. Looking for that suggests looking for love in all the wrong places. Women should be “in control of their financial destinys”. But that’s a far cry from assesing other men’s potential financial destinys as a benchmark for who they will or will not love.
JDB,
You are right, this is a controversial article as I figured it would strike a nerve with most of the men reading, after all who wants to be viewed as a meal ticket. However, as Ive said to others you’re reading way tooo deeply into the story. What I meant is what I wrote.
After receiving comments on my own site and emails about the article further discussing it Ive come to the conclusion that its easier for some men to evoke sentiments of love and communication rather than think about the very issues that drives so many divorces today. The divorce rate in this country has skyrocketed in part due to issues around money. Many arent willing to face this realization but love does NOT conquer all.
The point of my article is to encourage women to be savvy about the life partners they choose. Too many of us fall for the same ole love and communication game. Those are a given. I should have stated that. But to say that women should not focus on HOW financially savvy their partners are in favor of ONLY focusing on given characteristics like communication, chemistry etc etc is equivalent to skipping across a major highway in oncoming traffic. You’re bound to get knocked on your face with the reality that you should have looked before crossing. The same applies here: women should be looking at a man in ALL areas, not just chemistry, communication and the like.
No where did I say that men are a meal ticket or that the SIZE of their bank accounts should be taken into consideration. The article simply aimed to discuss HOW these men manage their money. I am happily married to a man who shares the same sentiments and felt the same way when we got together. He wanted a woman who was financially savvy and who wouldnt spend us into the poor house. I also have a husband who is budget conscious and thinks long term when it comes to our financial goals. This was my point. My husband makes great money but that wasn’t the only reason that I chose him as my life partner. His characteristics far outweigh his financially savvy but make no mistake, his level of financial interest and savvy played a HUGE role. I want no part of a man that spends recklessly because I do not plan to be broke and miserable in my old age because by choosing an irresponsible partner, we had to declare bankruptcy twice or foreclose on our home.
No, not this woman.
A financially savvy woman may not be for you because it evokes other negative feelings but it doesn’t negate the fact that women are beginning to take a closer look at HOW their partners manage money. NOT how much money they make.
“I have a big [bank account] and I know how to use it, baby” ... it never worked for me then … doubt it would work for me now ;)
Having been both poor and happy with my wife … and rich and happy with my wife, I can safely say that money actually doesn’t matter in a great relationship, but the communication around it does.
@ Ginger:
“Anyhoo, just to address concerns about it seeming as though I am promoting ONLY thinking about men in terms of their wallet… that isnt the case and I made that clear, hopefully in the first few sentences. I really wanted to drive home the importance of selecting a mate with a healthy attitude towards personal finance.”
However, all the work you did in the first few sentences was largely undone with your statements about stifling screams during sex with a shriveled up oil tycoon (not to mention several other head scratchers).
However, as I man I read your article and agreed whole-heartedly with it. However, I read it from the reverse point of view and placed women as the ones who must have their financial houses in order if they want any serious attention from me. Any woman I marry must pull her own weight: there will be no Drama Queen Fashionista Princesses in my life, thankyouverymuch. Looking for a Knight in Shining Armor to come sweep you off your feet, pay off all your debts, and set you up in some fancy McMansion with a Mercedes ML350 in the driveway? Keep looking sweetheart.
Maybe I can just find a shriveled up widow that survived her oil tycoon husband, that way I won’t have to worry about it. Hmmm…
Okay, I’m about a million years late to the party, but have to agree. How we spend our money is a clear indication of our values. I was thrilled when I learned that my future husband had scrimped to purchase a house at a very young age. It wasn’t the prospect of marrying into the house I was excited about—it was the proof that our values aligned. I had found someone who also felt that planning for the long term was more important than a fancy lifestyle.
Similarly, he was thrilled to find out that I was maxing out my 401k at the time. He wasn’t excited because of the prospective gravy train (ha!), it just was proof that I wasn’t looking for someone to take care of me financially. I already had it covered.
How a person spends their money is a pretty decent gauge of their core life values, which should be in pretty close alignment for long-term happiness.
Wait…wait… I think we just split a hair! Anyway, great post!
I agree that, as a single male, financial habits are extremely important in chosing a mate. I think discussing finances should be a high priority because any lives that are built without a sure foundation with not survive. This is more important to me than what color the walls should be painted, or what kind of vacation destinations are compatible, because at the end of the day, if you don’t have a strong financial position/skills your just renting anyway.
That’s my .02 cents!
I read this into the article – if the guy is a financial loser then chances are he is a loser in other significant ways. If he cannot plan, pay bills on time, handle financial responsibilities, then he is not going to be a reliable person in other ways. These guys past age 25 lose their fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants appeal and have a hard time finding partners. I think the relationship of money management and other big life issues is clear. It really isn’t a matter of “not being good with money” – it isn’t about being a financial investment whiz, rather it is about getting with the program in a very basic way. I most definately did not marry for money – but I did marry for love, which included being able to rely on and trust my husband to do the right thing financially with me.
I saw the problems a financially irresponsible relative had in all aspects of life – challenges getting a job, forget about a partner…just kind of floating around hoping to find the pot of gold under the rainbow. It is incredibly sad to see in a nice guy heading into his 40s with…zilch. And I am not talking about money here, I am talking about steady employment and a family and all that boring old stuff, this dude still lives with his parents most of the year. He is a nice person, wouldn’t hurt a fly but come on…