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How Five Banks Post Your Deposits and Withdrawals: Do They Trap You Into Overdraft Fees?

This article was written by in Banking. 136 comments.


Update: Bank of America settled a lawsuit for $410 million concerning this issue below.

In his documentary film Overdrawn!, Karney Hatch mentions that banks often post your deposits and withdrawals to your bank account in such a way that they maximize the possibility of overdrafts. Even if you believe you have a large enough balance to cover your withdrawals thanks to recent deposits, the banks have a way of calculating debits and credits that can result in multiple overdrafts in one day.

Here is how this works, supposedly. This is the scenario: you know that you have an automatic electronic withdrawal that will be executed today, perhaps to pay your mortgage or cable bill. You realize that you may not have the money in your account so you run to the bank and make a cash deposit to cover the withdrawal. Or perhaps you are aware of the impending withdrawal the day before, so you execute a transfer from one account to another online. In your scenario, the final withdrawal and deposit are executed on the same day.

According to experience with many banks, no matter what time your withdrawals and deposits are processed on any one day, the bank will apply your withdrawals first, from largest to smallest, then apply your deposits. So if you have $100 in your account at the beginning of the day, and you have instructions to pay your mortgage of $1,500, your cable bill of $75, a cash withdrawal at an ATM during the day for $80, a debit card purchase at the grocery store for $10, and a scheduled ACH transfer for $2,000, the bank will process your mortgage first, dropping your account below zero and incurring your first overdraft fee.

The bank will then reduce your balance by the amount of the cash withdrawal. Even though you’re already below zero the bank will charge you a second overdraft fee. Next, the bank will process your cable bill, resulting in the third overdraft fee. Your debit card purchase will be posted next, incurring an average fee of $30 for your $10 purchase. You’ve now been charged $120 in overdraft fees alone.

Finally, the bank will apply your deposit, bringing your account balance positive again.

This technique has been observed, and banks have even admitted to this practice. Yesterday, Consumerism Commentary reader Steve claimed that this is not the policy at Wachovia, nor is it the policy at most banks. So I called Wachovia, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Commerce Bank (TD Bank) and Chase to try to extract the official policies from the customer service representative or salesperson.

Here’s what I found, as of October 2008.

Wells Fargo

Wells Fargo’s policy is to always post ATM withdrawals first, regardless of the time the transaction took place. After ATM withdrawals are posted, deposits and other credits are posted from highest to lowest amount, and finally checks and other debits are posted from highest to lowest. Interestingly, if your starting balance is $0 and you walk into the bank at 9:00 am to make a cash deposit of $100 and at 2:00 pm withdraw $40 from the ATM, according to this policy you could incur an overdraft fee.

Citibank

I don’t have complete faith in the answer I received from Citibank. The representative I talked to did not understand my questions at first and put me on hold for a long time, presumably to find someone who might know the answer, but returned with an answer that still did not match my questions. Eventually, she told me that cash deposits and ATM withdrawals are posted at the time of the deposit, but ACH and check deposits are posted first. Check payments are posted after all other deposits. It sounds like you’re in the clear with Citibank.

Chase

Chase will post your transactions to your account at the end of the day. The bank starts with deposits and ends with withdrawals, both from largest amount to smallest. This policy would avoid overdraft fees as long as at the end of the day you’ve deposited enough to cover your withdrawals.

Commerce Bank (TD Bank)

Like Chase, Commerce Bank (now TD Bank) will post your deposits before your withdrawals. The policy is slightly different. Rather than processing your checks paid from largest amount to smallest, they are posted in the order of the check number, low to high. Commerce Bank assumes you want check number 1001 to pay before check number 1002.

The customer service representative at Commerce brought up an interesting point. First, keep in mind that there is a holding period when you deposit a check. The funds you deposit may not be available on the same day, even if the amount of the check is included in the balance listed online. Additionally, cash deposits have “next day availability,” so even cash deposits won’t be posted to your account until the next business day. Furthermore, on Friday, they consider it to be Monday, The one-business-day rule then stipulates that cash deposits on Friday won’t be available in your account for use until Tuesday!

Wachovia

Like Steve mentioned, the customer service representative at Wachovia explained the policy quite clearly. Wachovia will post your credits first, from highest to lowest amount, and will then post your debits, also from highest to lowest.

According to each bank’s representatives, the respective policies have been in existence as long as they could remember. I would like to contact more banks, like Bank of America, Bank of New York, Capital One, and PNC Bank to determine their policy as well. If I do, I will update this article.

It’s interesting that each bank has its own method of posting items to customers’ accounts. I think this is a practice that should be standardized across financial institutions, and it should be done in such a way that it benefits the banking customer: all overnight credits (ACH deposits, Direct Deposits, checks coming off hold, late ATM deposits) first followed all overnight debits (ACH withdrawals, electronic checks) from lowest to highest amount at the start of the day, then all real-time credits (cash deposits, ATM deposits during business hours) followed by all real-time debits (ATM withdrawals, bank teller withdrawals, debit card purchases) from lowest to highest amount at the end of the day.

Having never worked in a bank, I’m not sure if this policy is feasible, but it would be fair to the customer and reasonable to the bank.

Updated November 25, 2013 and originally published October 28, 2008. If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to the RSS feed or receive daily emails. Follow @ConsumerismComm on Twitter and visit our Facebook page for more updates.

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About the author

Luke Landes, also known as Flexo, is the founder of Consumerism Commentary. He has been blogging and writing for the internet since 1995 and has been building online communities since 1991. Find out more about him and follow Luke Landes on Twitter. View all articles by .

{ 136 comments… read them below or add one }

avatar juggler314

I’ve found WaMu to be pretty good about this. Even if i go to the ATM and make a deposit late at night it will be counted as actual cash available that day. A few times I’ve found something amiss in my records and had to do this and never have I had an overdraft fee because of it.

The account I use is a Platinum account so this info may not apply to every type of account (I don’t pay fees for a lot of things that a “free” account would). I don’t pay anything extra for my Platinum level account since my mortgage is considered part of my balance for the minimum calculation (yay).

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avatar Kathi D

Here is one technique that wasn’t mentioned. I have had this happen on checking and credit card accounts. You have a recurring draft on your account to pay for a service or bill. The bank sometimes charges the fee at the beginning of the month and then again towards the end of the month. When called, the explanation is that the bank posts the fee when the service requests payment and that the bank has no control over that. In the meantime, your account is overdrawn. Is this practice legal?

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avatar Greg

Maintain a cushion of $1,000 in your account. Should get fees waived and prevent overdrafts (which usually works out to be 10%+ roi). The cushion servers as your immediate backup cash.

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avatar smouw

Who the *** has an extra $1000????? I agree, the banks should all be standardized and post everything the same manner. If you deposit money to cover your checks for that business day, why should you incurr an over draft fee. Sometimes things happen outside of your control and if you transfer or deposit money to cover them, the bank has not lost money or taken a risk. The bank does not “pay” the items that are presented that day, they hold everything, so if by the end of business you’ve covered your transactions, why do they need to charge a fee?

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avatar joe

want to hand out them cushions, wish I had one.

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avatar jkeller4000

I think everyone should do this, if you cannot afford the 500 cash sitting in ur account, use a credit card and pay it off in full twice a month, if u have 0 dollars now it is easy to use the credit card to stop over draft fees. however if you do get an over draft fee i think you are living your life too much on the edge and therefore deserve punishment for not being wise. I really don’t care the way i look at it the wise people save money and buy companies, the un wise don’t save spend every dollar they make, pay over draft fees, and where does this money go ohh look it goes to the wise people. so if you don’t want to be a slave to the rich save a little and join them. saving $500 should not be a challenge, cancel your phone for 10 months, don’t buy the soda everyday for lunch, don’t eat out at restaurants, do like i did mix water and flour and microwave it it is not very tasty but it will fill u up and you don’t need to spend all your money. those who sacrifice will be rewarded, those who sacrifice will be rewarded by those who do not sacrifice.

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avatar isfine

Well, said! I agree with every aspect here, those should be considered words from the wise.

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avatar Matt

I guess it would be wonderful if everyone had the same living-to-expenses ratio balance. We’d ALL be “WISE.” Right now, I’m working a full-time work day but only classified as part-time. I receive no health insurance, no vacation, no dental, drive an hour to and from work (on my “unwise” dollar) to keep a job and have loans (car and student) that I can’t escape on top of the county/city/state taxes that make “WISE” people WISER and the “UNWISE” more stupid, helpless and dependent on government guardianship.

I can’t afford to buy flour let alone nuke it into some gastrointestinal concrete to trick my digestive system into thinking I’m living WISELY. That just sounds like a means to become constipated.

These financing expenses that I incur weren’t considered frivolous after I graduated from High School, they were encouraged as career living expenses, how the heck else does one get to their part-time jobs without them. It is true one could work without a college degree but they are much more likely to be taken advantage of by WISE companies/employers and public transportation could get you to your office/factory if you happen to be paying an exorbent rent to a WISE landlord to live within the proximity of bus routes. Without a phone for 10-months, you woThe point of the matter is my WISE bank (and yours) is taking liberties with some loopholes regarding account fees and reorganization of transaction types. If a WISE individual reordered and tampered with their expenses to come out on top, they would be in suspect of fraud. How do our WISE banks rationalize this that protects them from proportionate consequences.

A bank certainly should not be at the liberty to claim it is offering free banking if you are required to keep a minimum balance of $1,000. I’ve spent over this in misc. bank charges/overdraft attack. It’s criminal for one to incur $105 of bank fees to cover a $15 transaction that posted half a week late.

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avatar zeeze

You tell em!!

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avatar Mark

If you don’t like a bank’s policies, you are free to join a credit union or go to another bank, right?

Sounds like you need a second job; or a higher paying job.

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avatar Dorene

Ah, as IF credit unions are any better.

I just had this happen at One Nevada Credit Union.

I had an auto payment deducted on 7/15, and my payroll deposit post on that same 7/25, then was charged $35.

And, I was told that even IF it overdrew the account by 1 cent, for the 4 hours it took for them to process your auto payroll deposit, you will be charged the $35 fee.
Their employee felt this was perfectly fair even though my payroll deposited at 5:15AM on the 15th..

Seems “Not for Profit” isn’t what it used to be.

Solution? Stay away from One Nevada Credit Union…

avatar Ritamarie Romero

you call them wise and we call them crooks.

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avatar joy
avatar Nicole

My husband makes $30000 a year – which considering he is mildly autistic is excellent. I used to make the bulk of our income but am now totally disabled and still awaiting SS Disability approval. We have two children. The absolute ONLY luxury my husband and I pay for is high-speed (lowest-tier) internet access (which is actually more of a necessity since I have to take care of nearly all correspondence and finances this way because of my disability.) Are you telling me that we are unwise because we don’t have $500 cash sitting around?? We just had two months with unexpected car expenses totaling over $1000 and there went our emergency fund. How the heck are we supposed to have ANY savings when EVERY penny goes to absolute necessities and we STILL end up paying some bills late?? You are an arrogant jerk who evidently thinks everyone in the world should be JUST LIKE YOU. Don’t even try to lecture others about sacrifice!

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avatar gradschoolbrokeme

“flour and water and microwave it” Thanks I’m really hungry and thought I was the only that was at this point of creativity……. Two and a half jobs, graduate school, 15 pounds lighter, i hope your right about those sacrifices.

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avatar Bryan

Who the HELL has an extra grand is right?!. BET you work for a bank!.
It;’s called “milking” for every fee possible when it used to be the bank paid US for the priveledge of us depositing our money with them, They made their money off lending it out. AND wise investments.
Somewhere we the public surrendered our “rights” to our OWN money.
We need to “cripple” one of these banks on a Friday by a massive, ole’ fashioned “run-on-the-bank”.
I nominate Bank of Amerika WHO gave hundreds of thousands of credit cards to ILLEGAL ALIENS (without SS numbers) and then wanted a bail out..

Some willy nillys will cry in horror that “a run on the bank is like shooting the Pope!”.
It’s your money. Go to the post office and use money orders.
I’ll say it again…’Without your and my money, banks don’t own the carpet on the floor or the paintings on the wall”!!!

We were a better nation when most banks were just like the one George Baily ran in REAL LIFE!!!

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avatar Dan

It isn’t an “extra” $1000 you just have lying around. It’s part of your emergency fund, one of the first things you should be saving for. I feel very comfortable saying that before buying any entertainment devices better than you can find in a thrift store, you should really have at least $1000 emergency cushion. From there, priorities among emergency fund, retirement investing, and spending can be debated. Then work your way up to 3 months take-home pay. It really shouldn’t be that foreign of an idea. Having $1000 cushion should be a priority.

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avatar animalmonday

OK, so I save like hell to have my $1000 cushion. I lose my job, can only find a part-time job with no benefits. Then my car breaks down. My job is no where close to any public transportation, and the repair costs $700.So need to raid that $1000 I have saved up. But then my husband gets a tooth abscess. That costs $1300 to fix. What little I have left in the bank goes towards the tooth abscess, and I’m forced to put the rest on a credit card, getting me in debt. Then our refrigerator breaks, and although we buy a replacement from a second hand store, it still costs $200. Then something else breaks down, and so on. People with money are very short on imagination when it comes to how quickly “cushions” disappear when you’re poor. You almost never have a time in your life without some kind of emergency that requires you to raid the “cushion.” You simply have no choice, and then the next emergency occurs BEFORE you are able to replace the cushion. So in essence, the cushion never really exists, because you are always forced to raid it just when it starts building up again, and the emergency is always MORE than the amount you’ve been able to save, so you become more indebted, and the banks make more and more money from you with their interest fees, all due to medical and life emergencies. People with money are clueless. And full of ugly self-righteous judgements.

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avatar Nicole

AMEN – we truly need to organize this. Maybe facebook? Not sure most ppl would have the guts to follow through. We’ve all been whipped into submission so much by banks that we’re all freaking scared to let our balance drop below $100 in case the bank decides to post a bill on the very day our account is nearly empty. I’m sick of the rich a-holes who pay no taxes and contribute next to nothing to our society gouging every penny they can out of ppl in poverty. It’s sickening – TIME FOR A REVOLUTION!!!

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avatar KH

Yeah, you can’t balance your checkbook or manage your own finances so therefore we need a revolution… good luck with that.

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avatar Ritamarie Romero

our bank accounts are stressed out. there isnt 1000 in most of americas bank accounts

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avatar Laura

What economy are you living in Greg, the majority of Americans don’t have a cushion of any amount. Talk about out of touch with reality of our current society!

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avatar Kevin @ The Money Hawk

Of course they do this. The problem is that 99% of them do it. Banks, like everyone else, exist to make money. The only difference is that most companies make money legitimately while banks steal it from you with policies and behavior beyond your control.

The best way to combat this would be to leave these banks. However, this will never happen because the majority of society is too blind and ignorant to make a difference. One intelligent person leaves and five more sheep join.

I’ve given up on this issue. The only thing I’ve found worth my while on this issue is to make sure I never get close to overdrafting the account and make sure I behave myself, lest they take more of my money. Basically, I work around their policies so they never notice me. If they don’t notice me, they can’t take anything from me.

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avatar Tom S.

Well, sometimes one man CAN make a difference – Recently, both Bank of America and Fifth Third have entered consent decrees and will be offering refunds to their customers. I recently inquired about how Fifth Third processes transactions – and I got this, in part:

[B]eginning 3/25/11, we will process items in the following order:
First: All deposits (including funds available from pending deposits) made prior to the end-of-day cutoff.

Next: All pending and posted date/time stamped debits will be deducted from the customer’s balance. Date/Time stamp debits include all:
? Debit card transactions (both PIN and POS)
? ATM withdrawals
? Transfer from the account initiated via Internet banking or an ACE transfer

Finally: All other batch debits will process next in highest to lowest dollar order. These are transactions the customer initiated that are processed once per business day such as:
? Checks
? ACH debits
? Bill Payments
? Account Fees

There’s a notice on the Fifth Third website ( 53.com ) about their class action.

Now, if we could just get the Feds to make that a rule, instead of individual bank policy…

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avatar JoeCool

Tom could you forward that email to me ? Yesterday Fifth third processed a check I wrote before my deposit that was made on the same day. My email is joecoolcols@yahoo.com

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avatar Rick

Do Credit Unions do the same as banks? I haven’t really paid attention. I have noticed that even though I am paid on a Friday my credit union posts the money on Thursday evening and it is available to me.

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avatar Jimbo

I currently bank at a credit union and this is how they process things:
-First ACH deposits and withdrawals received on Monday are posted overnight for Tuesday morning credit.
-Then throughout the day debit card transactions are posted in real time order throughout the day, meaning that if I select the debit option and use my pin# at 8:15 am for coffee, 12:30 pm for lunch, 5:30 pm for gas and 8:00 pm for groceries, they post in that order. This includes ATM withdrawals.
-Deposits made in the branch are posted at the time the deposit is made with certain exceptions. They do have the option to post local checks within 2 days and non-local checks within 5 days.
-Debit card charges using the credit option where you sign the receipt are temporarily posted as pending immediately, but the amount may change. Such as purchases at a gas pump temporarily post for $1 and restaurant charges post with an assumed 20% tip on the amount charged. The corrected amount posts, along with all other credit type transactions post permanently when the merchant and their credit card processor posts the final amounts. Usually this occurs within a day or two, but this is controlled by the merchant’s processor, not the credit union.
-Finally checks that my bank received on Tuesday are posted to my account on Tuesday evening around 7 pm. I am not sure if they post high to low or low to high, but all checks post at the same time with a credit date of Tuesday.

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avatar Dorene

Not at MY credit union – One Nevada Credit Union, in both Las Vegas and Reno will post withdrawals BEFORE credits even IF the credit came in at 5am…

Just had it happen, and if it happens to overdraw your account by even one penny, you are charged $35.

Been in banking for over 38 years, and in THIS state and in THESE times, it’s just another way to bend their customer over…

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avatar Tessa

I use to be a supervisor for Wells Fargo Bank and I think who ever you talked to didn’t know what they were talking about.
Here is how it really works at Wells Fargo:
There are two types of transactions, teller and ATM. If you make a cash deposit with a teller, the cash will be credited into your account as soon as the teller hands you the receipt. If you make a check deposit with a teller an immediate $100 dollars is credited to your account and the rest of the check will be credited the next business day. If you make a cash or check deposit with the ATM an immediate $100 dollars is credited to your account and the rest will be credited the next business day. The difference is because the teller can tell the system that it is cash deposit where the ATM can’t make that distinction and everything gets processed like a check deposit.
So, if you make a cash deposit with a teller it is in the account and you can walk right out the door and pull it out of the ATM with out incurring any type of fee.

Secondly, Wells Fargo takes any credits before debits. So if you make a check deposit and on the same day make a debit card purchase Wells Fargo will credit your account the deposit before they debit out for the purchase.

The only snag is that the end of a banking business day is 4:00pm. This means for a check deposit to be in your account in the morning it must be in the ATM or at the tell by 4pm. I’ve seen SO many situations where a customer will make a 5:00pm deposit and assume because the made it in before the bank closed the money will be in the account by the morning, it won’t!
So, if you make a check deposit after 4pm and then go pull it right out, you will get charged the overdraft fee because you made the deposit after the business day is over.

All the differences and time cut off do make it really hard on people and can be confusing at first so I agree with other posters that it’s a good idea to always have some kind of buffer just in case you miss a cut off or the bank places an extended hold on your check. I do hope that this cleared up any skepticism with Wells Fargo because while I worked there I always saw that the bank tried hard to be fair and not hit good customers with outrageous policy or fees!

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avatar steve l

“So, if you make a check deposit after 4pm and then go pull it right out, you will get charged the overdraft fee because you made the deposit after the business day is over.”

OK, but if what you said is true here, then the ATM withdrawl would also be after 4pm and considered a transaction for the next business day, right? So, there really shouldn’t be a fee. I suck at handling my money, but having wells fargo take more than I put in it seems like, I don’t know if I can afford to bank with them…

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avatar James

@Tessa

I would actually like to challenge you on the credit before debit with Wells Fargo. I have banked with Wells Fargo for about 10 years now. When I switched auto insurance companies, the amount is auto drawn from my account on the 15th which is the same for my paycheck. Well for a while the amount of my auto insurance was more than i had available in my checking account and it would overdraft from my savings account. This really annoyed me because if i looked online it would be in this order:

Over Draft fee -$xx.xx
Over Draft from Savings: +$xxx.xx
Paycheck : +$xxxx.xx
Auto Insurance : -$xxx.xx

So, all of these transactions would show up on the 15th and clearly it was processing the debit before the credit. I had to call customer service and they refunded the fee each time this happened, but I had to move the money back to my savings account.

I also have multiple accounts at Chase and I can say that even if your account is showing negative, you can run to the ATM and deposit enough cash to cover the overage and you will be okay. These accounts are used for anything special, just to take advantage of account bonuses.

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avatar Lucky18

Yes, that’s true about Chase. You can rush to the bank ATM with cash if you see you have an overdraw that day and the cash is credited immediately. whew!
Chase was way ahead of Wells Fargo getting upgraded ATM’S that count your cash deposits, no envelope necessary any more and waiting for the next night (business day) to have your deposit credited. And Wells Fargo let’s you spend it immediately also.
Both banks post other Deposits/Credits at Midnight BEFORE Debits, which are iimmediately deducted right afterwards.
However, If you check your bank account online at midnight you won’t see this happen instantly because they have to upload their website for us to see our account info.
I was told this info from a Chase bank teller. Hope it helps someone.

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avatar Steve

The whole problem boils down to this: when banks started extending their hours, they didn’t extend their processing and cutoff times.

Customers ASSUME that because they’re making a deposit on a calendar day that it’s effective that day. If they would actually read their disclosures or ask the teller or call up like you did, there wouldn’t be any problems.

From now on, tell yourself that banks still close at 3pm. If you need it there today, you need it there by 3.

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avatar Dan

I was impressed with Presidential Bank’s handling of this.

Their interest-bearing checking account has a minimum balance of $1000. If you fall below that amount in a given month, you are assessed a $5 fee.

I checked my balance online one day when I knew I was cutting it close to the $1000 balance, and noticed that due to the order of transactions my balance had fallen slightly below $1000 before a deposit brought it back above.

I called Presidential, explained that because my end of the day balance would be above $1000 I didn’t want to be charged the fee, and they told me they would not charge me the fee.

Of course, it was only a $5 fee in my case, but I’d guess a similar phone call might produce the same result for a customer concerned about an overdraft rather than a balance limit.

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avatar Brandy

I have had a bit of a different experience with WaMu. I have a Treasury direct deposit that hits on the first day of the month, or the previous day if the first is a weekend or holiday.

I have documented proof that they process my withdrawals BEFORE the direct deposit.

The good side? They only charge one overdraft fee per day!

Also, wouldn’t it be GREAT if the banks would re-set your overdraft fee after say, 5 years without an overdraft? THAT would be customer rewards!

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avatar GeorgeE

That’s a good idea, but it would be better if the reset it every 12 months from your last overdraft fee. Down to $5 then go up in increments of $5 and top of at $35.

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avatar Brandy

Additionally, I had a very large check drawn on the US Treasury that I deposited through ATM. WaMu held the funds for several days “to make sure the check was good”!!!!

Umm, please to let me know if the Treasury is not good for a 6 digit check, mkay?

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avatar Jim

Don’t open an account with Colonial Bank in Alabama, they’ll really stick it to you with as many debits as possible before posting a deposit that actually came in before them on the same day!

If I could do without a bank I would, but they have monopolized stealing money from those who can afford it least!!

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avatar Brian

You are absolutely correct I made the mistake of opening an account with them in Alabama and now that BB&T has taken over its a nightmare.

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avatar Lindsay

YES!! Me too! I’m thinking class action lawsuit here with Colonial Bank/BB&T. Contact me on my website if interested!!

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avatar Mary

I’ve had the same problems with BB&T. It seems it should be illegal to manipulate the transactions so that they can ‘justify’ charging you overdrafts. I just paid $140 in overdraft fees because they posted my deposit AFTER my debits and charged the largest debit to my account first even though it was the last transaction I had. I am totally in on a class action lawsuit. Please keep me informed if you decide to move forward.

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avatar Amber

I had the same problem with Colonial/BBT. I now owe them money for a stupid overdraft that never should have happened!

avatar Janice

I feel sorry for anyone who banks at BBamp;T. They steal my money every payday. I live from paycheck to paycheck. I get paid twice a month and by the end of the 2nd week I’m down to pennies. But many times I make a cash deposit the day before a debit is suppose to post and they take out the money before they post the deposit. Just like today. I have $35 in the bank. An ACH withdraw is suppose to come out tomorrow or the next day for $33 plus I have a $20 monthly bank fee. So I ran to the bank at 3 p.m. and put another $25 in the bank. Now tomorrow will come and I’m sure with my luck the $33 charge will come through plus the banks $20 checking fee. My available balance at this time shows $60 so there should be enough to cover it. But I’m sure if both debits come in tomorrow they will charge me a $35 overdraft fee.

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avatar Mike

I’ve got one for you that “Top’s” all of this..ACH Deposits..Regions Bank …Even with the questionable practice of what “99 percent of banks do”..in regards to the ATM and deposit credits..Regions Holds ACH deposits for 3-4 days before posting them!!!..I have gone round-n-round about it with them (which they deny!)..and caught them last night..Deposit showed up before 12:00 PM as “pending” with a projected balance..should have processed at 12:01AM and be available..Today it’s NOT EVEN THERE!..and they deny ever having it….I can’t believe my on-line checking report is more accurate then their banking computers..This is happening all over..They use Billions of dollars “Interest Free” every day and there isn’t one agency that will take responsibility to look into it..America is getting Ripped Off again on a unfathomable level!!..I suspect it is collusion between the Fed’s who handle ACH Transfers and the Banks and they sure don’t want ANYONE asking about it..

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avatar Tom S.

I haven’t seen that; although again, they do process high-to-low, which is in contravention of recent court cases – Bank of America, and now Fifth Third… and other suits are pending against Chase, and several others. So, we’ll see. Ideally, we should be contacting our Senators and Representatives in DC and getting this procedure made unlawful.

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avatar Travis P,

BINGO! You ARE correct and I have “caught” them doing exactly that…I’ve been with Regions (and Union Planters before that) going on 20 years and after that (and the rest of their processing tricks), I’m out! My business will be going to a reputable Credit Union.

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avatar Cyndi

For those of us who live paycheck to paycheck. Having a cushion in the bank account is not an option. We have our bank account at BB&T (Branch Banking and Trust Co.) Even if our bank account has a positive balance, BB&T posts all debits first. They post our paychecks last- overdrawing our account, every week! (Our employer does not offer direct deposit.) We can not keep ahead of the bank overdraft charges! We were deeply affected by the mortgage meltdown and are now kicked by the bank when down. We have pleaded with them to forgive some of the service charges, but to no avail. I would love to find a bank that would post credits first.

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avatar Greg

I went for two years without a band account. Purchasing money orders from the grocery store was less than the banking fees. While maybe not the most desirable, it did save me money.

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avatar mike

That’s not an option for me..I’m speaking directly to “Predatory” accounting procedures that would seem to me to be against the Federal Banking Laws!!..With the “On-line Banking” access that we all have now …you can monitor the “Dates” that Debits and credits are made and clear…..I have noticed that not only will Banks “Hold” the Debits at certain times of the month (hoping for a regular monthly payment debit) but will actually “Re-calculate” the day the debit clears up to a week or more after the transaction is complete…This allows for “Creative Bookkeeping” ..IE: $200.00 balance..in the next 3 days, 5 debits totaling $195.00 “Clear” the account..6 days later a $300.00 debit clears instantly (by some miracle) on the same day a $400.00 Deposit is made (either direct or ACH..with the ACH clearing at 12:00 that evening as ACH transactions do)..The Bank will re-calculate the previously completed transactions and pay the $400.00 debit first!!!..then bounce all the other debits (already cleared and change the clear date) and charge banking fee’s accordingly.and then figure the Deposit effectively “Ripping You Off”!!!…I’ve gone round and round with my bank about this…Without a 3-4 times daily printout of your transactions off your on-line banking site (showing what cleared when) ..the consumer has NO leg to stand on as the bank computer has been changed..(seems to be some kind of “Hunting” Software the Bank uses).Even with your printouts your looking at several hours of fighting with the Bank Mgr. who has a list of “Pat” excuses that rival a side show pitchman!..This doesn’t even take into account the aforementioned Deposit (ACH) that should be an immediate credit off a 2-3 day ACH “Memo Post”..and figured before the $400.00 Debit!…Banks are now claiming that ACH deposits are figured at 12:00 that banking day..while any debit made that day is figured first…This after they have just “Held” Debits for several days just to “Create” this situation…There is no way to Police this until someone gets a really good attorney to really take a look at this practice and do a “Class Action” Lawsuit representing consumers against the Banks and force the Federal Reserve to stop them from this illegal conduct!!..This is a Trillion dollar a year plus Rip-Off that no one has done anything about!!!
I challenge the members of this board and any Att’s out there to start a Web-Site to bring all these potential clients together and everyone to monitor and get printouts of their transactions several times a day to create the body of evidence needed to bring these criminals to there knees!!! The first thing to look at is a local store that you use often…Note that on certain times of the month the normal “Hold” on your money from a Debit Card purchase will clear that day…then later (when the power, rent, mortgage,etc.) when the bills come in there is a 3-5 day Hold on the transaction from the same store..allowing the Bank to figure the big debit first and creating yet another way of causing a multiple “Overdraft” on your account…This is all kind of tricky to grasp until you get good at reading your personal On-line account printouts..and watch the dates change on debits!!!…This is only possible with the use of “Hunting” seek and destroy software..very similar to a “Bot” virus..or “Phishing” program..It is the way of nature for the Banks to apply the technology that years of accomplished On-line Rip-off Artists have developed and used to steal from consumers..and once the existence of this “Mal-ware” has been documented and revealed to the public, there will be a flood of these lawsuits!!!…Watch Your Money!!.. Because The Banks Are!!!

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avatar sara

I’m assuming your talking about Regions again? I always watch my bank accounts to see when credits, holds, pending, and other transactions are taking place. I’m watching Regions right now to see how a night check deposit is accounted for. Slow..slow…slow. I don’t like the system so far. I have Wachovia, too. Deposits go through fast at Wachovia.

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avatar Rick

On two separate occasions our bank has called us and said that our checking account balance has gone negative. They said if we made a deposit that day they wouldn’t charge a fee. The amounts were small and an oversight on our part. We don’t maintain much on deposit with the bank so presumably they treat other customers similarly.

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avatar Sharon

I bank with Southwest Airlines Credit Union. They are awesome. I don’t work for SWACU but because my immediate family member does, I am able to bank with them. When I have a check direct deposited, they always post it at Midnight sharp the day it is expected…if that day falls on a weekend, they post it Friday night at midnight and the funds are immediately available. They also post deposits immediately and then debits follow in the order in which they were received. Southwest Airlines Credit Union is the best bank I have ever dealt with. I would highly recommend them.

I have a friend that was recently affected by the mortgage melt down. Her mortgage is with Wells Fargo and she banks with BOA. Both are crooks and will steal you blind. I have recently been helping my friend with her budget due to mortgage issues and the fact that I handle the finances for the company that I work for. I found and have documentation to support both practices. My friend was behind on her mortgage, what I found was: Wells Fargo repeatedly posted her mortgage payments not in accordance to the “Terms” stiplated in her mortgage agreement. They were outright violating that agreement. As a result, they showed her 3 months past due and they began foreclosure proceedings. She tried to get a modification to her mortgage but after 3 months nothing happened and her home was scheduled to be sold in an auction in September. We contacted numerous attorneys which required outrageous retainers and she essentially could not afford. Wells Fargo continuously posted multiple mortgage payments any way they wanted even though the mortgage terms specifically specify how these funds are to be applied, Well Fargo disregarded those TERMS stipulated in the mortgage documents. It was not until we filed a complaint with the Comptroller of the Currency which oversees banks with NA in their name that anything started to happen. Within one week of her home being sold, Wells Fargo approved her for a loan modification. The only problem, in order to save her home, she had to agree to accept all the extra fees that Wells Fargo had added from legal fees to you name it. She was essentially forced to accept these terms.

I have filed numerous complaints with various officials, agencies, wrote Senators, Congressmen in our area, etc.

Since all of this happened, I have been helping my friend manage her money. She banks with BOA. I print out her banking activity 2-3 times a day. The practice that Bank of America participates in is similar to those discussed on this website. Just to give you an example, my friend stopped by on Wednesday, her roommate just paid her the rent money and she had CASH. She asked if I would be able to stop by her bank to make the deposit because she is working 7/10′s. On 1/8/09, I made her CASH deposit to her account. The receipt shows DEPOSIT 1/8/09 however, BOA shows 3-4 different scenario’s depending on what time of day you check….I printed all of this. The CASH deposit receipt shows 1/8/09 as the date of deposit, online they show “deposit made after cut off time” and pending. On 1/9/09, the deposit was still “pending”. I checked online 3-4 times and printed everything out on 1/09/09, the CASH deposit did not show up and was not posted to her account until sometime after 5:30am the morning of 1/10/09.

I think the American public should protest these practices to our elected officals. If we don’t, nothing will change and who is looking out for us and protects the consumer these days? If you don’t complain then nothing will ever change.

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avatar Paul

In regards to that BofA cash deposit, it appears from the context of that post that you made a cash deposit to your friend’s account after the cutoff time for BofA. Cutoff time means the bank is effectively closed but is still staying open for convenience of customers. Now, although that cash deposit is marked as pending for next day, that is really irrelevant as cash deposits are always available immediately regardless if it’s showing as pending or not. You’ll see proof of this in what’s reflected as your “available balance”. I don’t see anything illegal or shady in that scenario you presented.

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avatar mike

That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!!!..There is a “Mal-Ware” program that “most” Banks are using that searches for and “Tags” accounts that are vulnerable!!!..Most all the “Lowly Bank Mgr’s” are not aware of it and don’t understand what’s happening. They are give the “Pitch” to sell and their job depends on it!!!…As a Country we have to rise up and “Protest” and “SUE”…That’s the only way this will stop and keep it from getting worse!!!..I just had $600.00 in charges and fee’s reversed because I raised heck!..and I was right!!!..This is “SOP” for Banks now and will get worse!!..Rise up and Fight!!..We work to hard for our money to have it stolen by the people who charge us to watch it!!!..Read my previous posts and really try what I suggest…You will see what I am talking about!…It’s “Mal-Ware” being used against us by the same institutions that our Government is supposed to be supervising!!!…Where the Heck are the Lawyers when you need them???…Remember these days 2+2 +=10

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avatar Dan

There has been a Class Action against Bank of America for this.

If you had a Bank of America account between 12/6/2000 and 12/31/2007 and had a check with overdraft fees, you are entitled to a $78 refund.

http://clossonsettlement.com/PDFs/ClaimForm.pdf

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avatar Mary

Mike-You are so right and explained it perfectly!!! I am so mad!! This very thing happened to me this week, and now the extra days I worked last week are eaten up in fees thanks to PNC Bank’s predatory practice. I did check my balance online last week, as I do each day at least 1-3 times per day. Some things showed that they were cleared, then magically, voila!!! they rearranged the transactions. Transactions that were done over the weekend weren’t sent through until Wednesday, while others were sent through Tuesday that were done Monday. All electronic transactions. Furthermore, I deposited a check on Wed. as we don’t have direct deposit at our employer, and they bounced another transaction even though my account had funds because according to the bank, “The funds weren’t truely available” until the next day. I couldn’t deposit the funds “as cash” like usual, because, of course I was overdrawn. Kinda like a “catch 22″ With whom do we speak or write to, state legislators or congressmen to get this practice changed?? I feel that the transactions should come out in chronological order.

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avatar Paul

I’m not siding with or against posters on this site. I just want to correct some misconceptions. Electronic debits are posted in the order that you spent them. Banks don’t have Malware programs that rearrange whole weeks worth of transactions. If you use your debit card over the weekend at Starbucks and then slide it at Safeway on Monday, the weekend debit won’t necessarily post before the Safeway debit. At Safeway, they’re point-of-sale machine allows you to process the debit as ATM allowing you to enter a PIN. That transaction posts that day whereas using your same debit card at Starbucks, it’s run like a credit card and there’s a delay in the posting depending on how long Starbucks sits on the transactions before they batch out their credit transactions and send it to the bank. So the point is, the order that you spend isn’t the order that it’ll post. It’s not magically getting rearanged, it’s just retailer sitting on their batches.

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avatar Luke Landes ♦127,455 (Platinum)

That’s only a partial explanation. On the day the bank receives the transaction from the retailer, they are often free to post the transactions *received the same day* in the order they prefer.

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avatar Tom S.

Not at Regions. I’ve seen the “magic re-ordering” as well as the typical “highest first” re-sequencing that BofA just got gigged for doing. I’ve complained about it to Regions, and keep getting the “that’s standard industry practice” boilerplate reply. The one difference I can see between the BofA complaint and what Regions does is that Regions does make it clear that you can opt-out of overdraft coverage, or apply for “enhanced” overdraft coverage (loans) – and make it simple enough to do on their website. Given this ruling in the BofA case, I wonder if other banks that don’t adhere to strict chronological order, including Regions, will correct their policies. The one good thing I’ve seen at Regions is that ACH deposits (Direct Deposits) are counted in the “available balance”, even though they aren’t in the “ledger balance” until the next business day; “Cash” deposits are immediately available, as far as I know, even if they’re after the “close of business” cutoff time. But woe unto the Regions customer who has $500 in the account on Friday, and does transactions for $450 over the weekend, and a $75 transaction on Monday! EVERYTHING WILL BOUNCE and incur the $35 overdraft fee each.

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avatar Tom S.

Spend $50 at Safeway, and later go to Kroger’s and get $75 worth of groceries (Kroger’s means better meat!). The $75 will post BEFORE the $50. And if you only had $60, then BOTH transactions will generate overdraft fees. At least unless your bank happens to be one of the ones named as defendant in suits brought in Federal court to halt this practice – so far, only BofA and effective 3/25/11, Fifth Third.

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avatar Jimbo

The better question is why did you spend $125 when you only had $60.

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avatar T.M.

That is a valid question. I often wonder how fee can appear on an account that had money in it in the first place. It doesn’t work like that. If you are spending more than you have then of course there are going to be fees.

avatar mike

I told you!!!!..all you have to do is keep printing this “Garbage” 2-3 times a day and keep all your records and we can build the biggest “Class Action Suit” this country has EVER!! seen…I’m talking about the “Blatantly Illegal” whole sale “Ripp-Off” of all times being done with “Collusion” between supposedly competing Banks!…(Trillions of Dollars) ..With something this “Wide Spread” you can’t tell me the “Bank Examiners” don’t know about it!!!..so that brings the ‘Suit” to the “Federal” level…That will get good Att’s involved!!!..but everyone has to “Print-Out” the pages to “Prove It”!!!..We need a Bumper Sticker or “T” shirts or something!!!…TV coverage would help…It will get “Rolling” on it’s own if just a few people start to “Push” and “Record” everything!..Just another “Tidbit” to ponder….Your “Deposit” of your paycheck gets a “Memo Post” as soon as the teller stamps it…That money is instantly available to the Bank for it’s own use..and they both report it and invest it instantly!!!…without paying you dividends for your “Loan” to them..(while you wait for it to clear)…Then if there is a problem..they charge you again for some one writing you a “Bad Check”…They gain and you lose..your responsible for any fee’s incurred and the only way you can collect those fee’s is to sue in Small Claims Court”…This wouldn’t bother me except for them getting to make money off me without paying “Interest”..and again “Shuffling” the Debits and Credits to cause more “Predatory Banking”…The Suit referred to (in previous post).. against BOA was Settled out of court so there was no conviction…There have been some very “serious” Suits about similar and “Overlapping” topics that have all gone in the customers favor and established some pretty “Harsh” penalties for these “Practices”…but no one has jumped up and done anything in the last 10-15 years of any consequence…a lot has changed (computers) and has allowed for this Larcenous behavior on the part of the “Fed. Banks”..Now we have to Police the Government ourselves as the Tax Paid employees of the US (That you and me and our Tax Dollars pay for)..Don’t even make an “Attempt” to enforce or follow existing Laws!!!..This could be a “Juicy Suit” …Like I said ..”Where’s that hungry Lawyer???”…I know that my cut will be some stupid little pittance but what I’ll save in Bank fee’s, Time, Hassle, and Money will be just fine!!..This Bank Stuff is killing me!!!..every week!!!…I’m tired of making them give me my own money back!!!…$2,600.00 this year!!!…plus the phone calls, printer paper, time, BS, Gas, Time off work, ETC.I got a hold of the Fed. in charge of all the Bank Examiners..(nice guy)..He’s lost in an obscure office in Wash. and personally responded to me by phone at 6:30 at night!!!..from his car!! on the way home!!..has a secretary and that’s it!!…One guy!!..He’s so busy with all the “Bush Money” being given out to all the “Party Animals” that are claiming their share..that watching Banks is very low on his “Plate”!!!..It’s in our “Laps” whither we want it or not!!..On a personal level all you can do is what I suggested and they HAVE to give you your money back…(don’t jump intermediately..when you see it..wait for a week or so to get all the “Print-out’s” in order and things calm down on your account..Early complaints can cause you even more trouble as they realize you are watching..(Things get real strange then..2+2=10..every time..)..Anybody make “T” Shirts???…”Bust the Banks” or something…

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avatar ducanh

I was buying 2 game cards from my country with my debit card. Those card have been cancel but PNC put my $12.85 in “Pending Withdrawals” for 3 days and I haven’t seen any side they give my money back. What should I do? I send PNC an e-mail to day but I think it won’t be answer or if they answer, they could say anythink they want. I think I need to withdrawal almost all of my money and transfer them to another bank that have better service.

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avatar Luke Landes ♦127,455 (Platinum)

ducanh: That’s a debit preauthorization that you see in your account, and the bank might keep them there for five days or more, but usually less. They’ll just disappear if the debit was canceled by the place you bought the game cards. If the purchase wasn’t canceled, the preauth will become a debit and if you want your money, you’ll have to get the game card seller to credit your refund.

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avatar mike

“debit preauthorization” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!another fancy word for your money is gone and we are using it and making money off it, but, but ,but you better not screw up or we will charge you an overdraft fee because we want to leave it out there like a Buzzard!!!…THIRTY FIVE DOLLAR

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avatar mike

and another thing..“debit preauthorization”..is a “memo post”..which the bank uses to make investments..and hold your deposits..they “memo post” ..bank uses money until they decide to put it on your acct…..during this time your money can’t be accessed..but they are using it..and if you try THIRTY FIVE DOLLLARS

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avatar dcexpat

This is the policy at PNC. I recently made a $2000.00 deposit, and it posted as cleared when I checked my balance online, so I scheduled some payments. Several days later, I got a letter saying that the deposit would take longer to clear, so I was charged an overdraft fee on each payment I had scheduled. When I asked the bank about it, they essentially said that even though the funds had posted online, I should have known that the check had not cleared, because it hadn’t been 48 hours yet. In the past, checks that hadn’t cleared were posted under “pending transactions” until the funds became fully available. The bank told me they stopped doing this, now they post the full amount, even if they haven’t cleared it yet, then charge you an overdraft fee if you try to draw on it. This is obvioucly a way for them to collect higher fees.

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avatar JAN

I bank with Compass and they have explained to me that they subtract all the debits first. Then they tack on any OD fees if able to, after that they credit you’re account with whatever deposits you have. I was not aware of this untill about 6 mo after i had the account. The bank rep that set up my account never mentioned this practice to me. I would like a honest bank but they seem to be in short supply. Does any one know of a good one in DFW TX?

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avatar Gary

This is spot on information. Currently, there is a class action suit against a long list of banks around the country that are using software that deliberately posts debits ahead of credits to create as many overdrafts as possible. This is outright theft, folks, and is illegal as hell. But, it’s not at all surprising once you realize that the entire banking industry is a fraud and criminal enterprise, in the first place. Read books like G. Edward Griffin’s “The Creature from Jeykll Island” to learn more about what the international banking industry has been doing for over a century.

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avatar Sheila

Wachovia is the worst for this…I have called and verified a deposit has been received at the bank and then called to pay a bill right afterwards and they processed the bill and then applied the deposit and charged me an over draft of $35. Even though their automated services said the available funds were there….they are totally out to rip you off. I am closing my account with them on the first of this month for that reason. They said the deposit had been received but not fully processed so they charged me the fee even though the automated system flected the avialable balance as there. (what???)

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avatar Julie

Chase is terrible. Anyone ever heard of holding a payroll direct deposit? My payroll deposit has been on time for 2 years. Now, all of a sudden, they tell me over the phone it’s scheduled to be posted 4 days later. My colleagues have received their deposits, on time! Even those who bank with Chase. This is highway robbery! Because it’s the holidays, they are trying to force me to overdraft my account! Can I collect interest on the money they are holding? Who do I complain to?

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avatar Paul

Info above on Chase is not complete. Payments made with their on-line Bill Pay system are processed before deposits.

Another “feature” they have is overdraft protection is first taken as a cash advance from any linked Chase credit card before it’s taken from a linked savings account. (Was told I couldn’t unlink my Chase credit card from my account.)

@Julie: Agree! Chase is terrible. You’re supposed to put money in a bank (rather than mattress) to keep it safe. I have to watch Chase closely to keep them from stealing. I never had problems like this with WaMu. Since Chase took them over I’ve had to call and argue 5 or 6 times about service charges. The last one was a $45 service charge for late payment on my Chase Credit Card. I paid it from my Chase Checking account using Chase Bill Pay. I authorized the payment a week before it was due, funds came out on the date they chose (same day), but were held for a day (by Chase) before being delivered (to Chase). I had to argue with 3 people for over an hour to get the $45 refunded. I kept being told “sorry, no one here can reverse the $45 fee because we didn’t receive your payment on time.” (Switching to City National when I can close the Chase account.)

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avatar Bryan

I have a tiny little credit union doing the same thing now out of Lancaster, SC. Doesn’t matter if it’s the same day, they tell you afterwards,they “Process” transactions as they come in, no matter that they “advertise” same-day banking..If you protest, then they return the money, begrudgedly telling you “Now we’ll do it THIS time”..

One Friday however back in the Winter, I went to make a deposit to cover my insurance payment due the following Monday..The bank branch was LOCKED at 5:30 instead of 6:00pm. I went to one door, then thought, okay, the drive-thru was open. ..NO, the curtains were down…I went back to the other door, and finally someone came..”Oh we’re closed.”..”Yea, it’s not 6pm, it’s 5:31, What’s up?”. I demanded….”OH we gotta’ go home, the roads are FREEZING”…I look out at their own time, thermometer clock and say “It SEZ, 43 DEGREES!”…

I put my deposit in the night box, made a camera phone pix of me doing it with a time date stamp of 5:40pm. AND drove off in a huff to my other account, a non-joint account at Wal-Mart. (they stay open until 7pm, and notify you immeadiately online of all pending transactions.)..Their response was to offer me a “finder fee” to pass out their brochures with my name as a reference on it to ALL Founders Federal Credit Union customers…

MONDAY, I go in to the branch, ready to make the trip over to the main branch in Lancaster, SC to raise 3-shades of HELL expecting an overdraft fee and my insurance payment returned when I’m greated at the door..”MR XXX”. we’ve already taken care of it for you. Here’s your deposit slip. We’ve had to do ALL the transactions like this today”..

This past Saturday, I make a cash deposit in their night box as my usual tranascation….Founders Federal Credit Union of SC shows a debit run first, then an overdraft fee, then my deposit…They all came within a minute of each other. The branch manager made the CONCIOUS effort to allow this..
SO, I”m taking a shower, getting in the car..AND DRIVING the 50 miles to Lancaster, SC to present a message to their board members that I might only be one person now,BUT that I have access to the names and address’s as a MEMBER of all other MEMBERS’s and are going to exercise the right to call a meeting to discuss “changes” to the credit union’s policy seeing as “we” own it. I already got an acquaintance at WBT in Charlotte who 1)Hates bank policy as much as anyone 2)Sees a major David vs a Tiny Goliath that could send some serious shockwaves atleast thru the Mom and Pop banks who want to play the same game as the BB&T’s and the BOA’s..

Having worked for banks over 13 years in their processing/networking departments, I know EXACTLY the “type” of scheming, coniving, CROOKS that run these places..Sniveling, lazy underachievers falling all over one another to find a way to get more of YOUR money. Their biggest fear?. Organizing a good ole’ RUN on the BANK!. It was recently done to a bank in the UK and laws were changed calling bank fees “illegal usury” and customers are now able to sue for TREBLE damages in the common court by showing how their financial situation were damaged.

What the UK told banks is 1)It’s the CUSTOMER’s MONEY not YOUR money to begin with…2)They the CUSTOMER give you the bank the PRIVELEDGE of watching their money in exchange for you being able to lend it out therefore making a fair return from those loans 3)Without THE CUSTOMER’s MONEY, you wouldn’t have ANYTHING at all!.

OR as a friend of mine once told me (who was in the banking biz himself for one of the few semi-honest instituitions)..

“Without the customer’s money, the bank doesn’t even own the carpet on the floor or the pictures on the wall”….Another friend told me “Banks make paper lie”.Remember this when you deal with any bank. Tell THEM how it’s going to be with YOUR, not THEIR money, NOT the other way around!

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avatar Eevie

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

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avatar Mike

Reading this thread reminded me of another practice I have seen. I have had pendng authorizations that in total would have over drawn my bank account by $1. I deposited a couple of dollars to cover this before they cleared. They processed the first transaction(which happened to be a transfer between accounts) before the deposit, stated that my available balence would not cover it(it still showed -$1) and charged me overdraft fees on every transaction made that day. The kicker was that the day before was the end of the window for my signup bonus to be credited. The told me that the status of one of my accounts had changed at some point in time after I had allready recived conformation e-mails stating that I had been approved and the bonus would be paid with a specific window that if would be paid in.

So in effect they tried to disqualify me for a bonus payment that I allready recived recived corrispondance stating the qualifications, dates met, and final conformation of approvial after I called them on it. While at the same time they charged me overdraft fees for a transfer between accounts that I made while my available balance was more than enough to cover it. That brought my overall balance below zero AFTER the fee was assesed
(had they not charged the fee all transactions would have cleared because the deposit showed before the last transaction in the statement) I asked them to freeze all activity, or close the account untill it was cleared up and they refused, thus charging daily overdrawn account fees..

It took a week of e-mail corrispondance for them to finally tell me that it had to be handled by my home branch’s manager. Now I can honestly say I love her to death, she did return my balance to what it would have been. But I also know that if they hadn’t I had proof that my girlfriend had completed transactions in an account that they used to try to disqualify me for the bonus( they said that because she was only on one, not both accounts it changed something). I belive the only reason they stopped arguing with me about it was because I stated verry clearly that I could probibly screw them with what they said in the corrispondance, printouts made before and after everything posted, and recipts showing that the tellers had allowed my girlfriend access to an account that they clearly stated in corrispondance she did not have access to. Whe I feel better now that I got that out.

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avatar sara

Easy. My boyfriend has no online account access set up. So, this means that I can’t micromanage his funds as I do mine. He has my account number to make deposits. We have seperate accounts and neither of us have mentioned the others name so there is no possible access to the other’s money. Deposits never hurt.

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avatar Stuffie0912

So does anyone know of banks that post credits first then debits. I was told First market bank does.

so in a scenario where you see a pending debit, you can run tothe bank, make a deposit by 1 or 2 and it will protet you and be credited and cover the pending debit

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avatar JJSmith

This is what Commerce Bank did to me. They allowed a transaction to go through although I did not have the funds in the account when I made the purchase( I accidentally grabbed the wrong card). When I realized my mistake and told the cashier at Jiffy Lube to not use the card, she said it went through, I thought it was strange. She had put it through as a credit. Earlier in the day, when I had enough funds, I made a purchase at Dunkin Donuts also as a credit. When the deposits came through for the day, they of course bounced the transaction at Jiffy lube and the purchase at DD, also purchases at DD from days before! when I actually had more than enough funds in the account at the time I made the purchases. Consequently charging me a whopping $175. I went straight to the bank to argue, then they handed a waiver to sign to say that I won’t allow then to put the transaction through when I don’t have enough funds in the account. Why wasn’t I told this before? They credited me most of it on the spot, but then took it back the next day! This should be illegal. The most convenient bank? Convenient crooks!

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avatar Jrcarey1281

I have been with Bank of America for over four years. Never had a problem, I can deposit cash or check into the ATM and it’s available same day ( if its cash) and you deposit it before 8pm. If I am depositing check same thing it’s avalable same day if it’s under 3,000.00 anything over 3k is one day business hold. Awesome bank been with them since the Military. Never got charged fees, I got one fee for check order and I spoke with representative and they refunded it back to me, no issues at all. If you are looking for a good bank with good customer service join up!

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avatar joeiii63

I just want to know when exactly the “end of the business day” occurs. I bank at US Bank and have found that deposits made after 4:00 pm are supposedly credited “after the next business day”, but deposits made after 4:00 pm on Friday are not available until Tuesday at midnight (rather than at 4:01 on Monday). So, does “the business day” end at 4:00 pm or does it end at midnight (first tick) of the next day? Apparently there two different “ends of the business day”, one of which is used for deposits and another (eight hours later) which used for funds availability. That just seems wrong to me (and should probably be illegal as well).

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avatar Suzanne

I’m wondering what anyone out there knows about SunTrust??? I have been with 5/3 Bank for about 7 years and I’ve had enough. Last week on Friday at 4:30pm I paid my Fuel Oil delivery person with a check for $600.00 At noon of the same day I had made a deposit of $550.00 which brought my bank balance to about $900.00. It never occured to me that I was in an overdraft situation. …but I was because the delivery man went right down to the branch and posted the check (I guess he really needed the money fast). That night I had several withdraws and because that check came out first and then the other withdraws then my deposit posted, I was overdrafted to the tune of $99.00 in fees even though I had a positive daily balance of $250.00. I’ve confirmed that this is not SunTrusts practice but is there anything else that should know about??? Oh, and they refunded me one fee. Thanks 5/3 Bank your awesome!!! :(

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avatar Tom S.

Go to 53.com; there’s a link near the bottom of the page pointing to the Class Action Settlement website. File the claim based on what you’ve posted. You should get it all back.

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avatar Tom S.

More on 5/3…

I had the same thing happen, almost. Deposit made at 9:13 AM, with internet transactions (ACH) about an hour later. The internet transactions generated an overdraft, even tough they did not post until three days later. A quick call / email to the branch manager fixed it 100%; I had made sure that the POS/ATM (instantly / chronologically processed) transactions were well within the pre-deposit balance.

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avatar Eevie

Vystar Credit Union (Jacksonville, FL, Gainesville, FL) is definitely one of those financial institutions that calculates debits and credits in such a way as to result in multiple overdrafts in one day. They apply your withdrawals (ACH withdrawls, checks, etc.) first, suck out the NSF fees, then lastly, they apply your deposits (including Direct Deposits). Vystar looking out for Vystar first, customer last. I am seriously thinking about switching financial institutions.

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avatar Tom S.

I’m in Indianapolis, Indiana… and I’m having trouble locating an attorney with both the staff and the time to handle filing a suit similar to the ones previously mentioned against Regions Bank. I found one, but there’s a conflict of interest – their offices are in the Regions Bank Building downtown, so they’d be suing their landlord. Does anyone have a suggestion? The bar association’s referral service has been less than helpful (small one or two person firms) Thanks!

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avatar Abby

Hi everyone,
I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but I researching for infomation regarding a system used in banking whereby Cash & Cheque-Withdrawals and Deposits, telex transfers…whereby the Teller services are approved through a POS like machine by swiping your Debit Card and entering your PIN and in case you do not hold a Debit Card, a receipt can be printed for you to sign…does anyone have any idea about such a machine and what’s its techical name.

Thanks

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avatar fromAshes

Just got done at the bank (BB&T) trying to figure out their practices in posting trnasaction after I recieved $140 overdrawn fee. I tturnes out the way they figure is to take your last daily balance subtract what ever is pending then start subtracting posted payment starting with the most expensive and on. So with this happening and them taking out “PENDING” transactions before they start doing other math my account which should have been $60 after a late night transaction deposit of $80 and debit tranaction of -$20. They have now assesed me $140 with another $70 coming out later….Not even the bank manager could fully explain to me their practice on this. HOWEVER, thirty minutes into our conversation she did state that starting next month (June 2011) banks are being regulated and required to post transactions in order of appearance not however the hell they want so that they can make the most profit

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avatar Stella

TD Bank (Commerce Bank – whatever) Shuffles accounts around when your account is down to it’s last dollars. For example. I had $130 in my account on Saturday. I got gas for $30.00, then went to the atm and took $60.00 cash out, went to the grocery store and used my debit card (as a credit) for $30.00 then rented a movie at red box for $1.00. My total in transactions was = $121.00, leaving me with $9.00. On Monday I went to the TELLER and deposited $10.00 cash just in case. My balance read, after the deposit,.83. Frantic, I went online and sure enough my pending gym membership of $49.00 was coming through. My account was then shuffled (most expensive item first, even though pending, came first – my gym membership). Then I was charged $105.00 in overdraft fees ( though it was not clearly stated on my online account as to what this applied to exactly). Upon visitng the bank I found out I was overdrafted for the cash, the grocery, and the movie rental (gas did not come out until Tuesday when acocunt was cleared again). Even though I had money in the account according to the ATM, online banking and the teller – by Monday, the pending $49.00 took precedence, as did the gas pending (only $1.00 really) but they took the whole amount of $30.00 against me. If your confussed so am I, and so was the customer service rep at the bank, and so was the young teller. Shuffling to TD Bank advantage. Shaddy, shaddy practice and it should not be legal! I am switching banks to a local one ( one of the few left). TD Bank is an awful establishment.

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avatar Scott

Has Anyone tried Woodforest National Bank that are located nationally in Walmarts? Ive had them for over a year and the way their system works is that the banking day ends when the bank closes at 6 or 7pm depending which day it is. I have an ACH deposit go through every Thursday night/Friday Morning and it will post to my acct and be available IMMEDIATELY. At my old Wachovia acct it would not post to my acct until MONDAY or TUESDAY. It is a direct deposit for christs sake. I have had very little problems with them, a big problem is that Walmart is usually always mobbed and it is inside walmart. Also, when you first open an acct with them, if you have a huge personal check come in, they will put it on hold for like 7 business days. It drove me nuts, but other than that, Woodforest is worth the little trouble. Another thing they do which is great is send you a daily email with not only an UP TO DATE and trust me..it isnt like Wachovia or Wells Fargo where the information in their “balance alert emails” is a day or two behind. But say in that email (whch is sent at about 5am) it says your in the negative from transactions that posted that previous night. You have until close that day to deposit enough money to cover the balance. Another awesome thing is that they are open on SUNDAYS for like 6 hours and to them, every single day except Christmas and thanksgiving and maybe a couple other holidays, is a BANKING DAY to them. Everything you deposit is available for immediate withdraw and posts to your acct the second you put it in. Hope people research Woodforest and let me know what you think!!! And no, the last place I would want to work is a freaking bank. To me it would be like working for Satan, so it is not like I am promoting the bank bc I work or worked there. Hope the rest of these banks ESPECIALLY Wachovia, get whats coming to them.

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avatar Terri

How can this be legal?

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avatar A.N.

GET THIS ONE…. KEY BANK
I HAD A PENDING TRANSACTION ON MY ACCOUNT- NOT YET POSTED, SHOWING A TEMPORARY NEGATIVE BALANCE. I RUN TO THE BANK TO MAKE A $CASH MONEY DEPOSIT TO MORE THAN COVER IT; I GET THERE EARLY AFTERNOON, THE BANK IS CLOSED. ITS NOT A BANK HOLIDAY, IM AT THE DRIVE THRU AND HAVE NO CLUE WHATS GOING ON, ALONG WITH A HANDFUL OF OTHER CUSTOMERS CIRCLING THE BANK TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT.
I FINALLY GET A HOLD OF A FRIEND WHO SAID THEY SAW KEY BANK PEOPLE OUTSIDE DOING STUFF. FINALLY TODAY, CALL THE BANK, THEY HAD A “HELP THE COMMUNITY DAY” OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND CLOSED THE BANK FOR THE DAY!
SO, MY CASH DEPOSIT WAS DEEMED NOT RECEIVED UNTIL THE NEXT DAY EVEN THOUGH I OPTED TO AT LEAST DEPOSIT IT THRU THE ATM. I CALL THEM, THEY SAY I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THE CLOSING! THAT THEY HAVE A SIGN ON THE DOOR! I DONT GO INTO THE BANK EVER.
THEN THEY SAY, EVEN IF IT DID POST THE DAY I PUT THE MONEY IN, THEY POST DEBITS BEFORE CREDITS SO THAT NO MATTER WHAT, THEY CAN CHARGE YOU OVERDRAFT FEES; WHICH ARE $39 DOLLARS EACH! YES, IM TALKIING ABOUT KEY BANK, KEY BANK. THEY ARE LIKE THE ONLY BANK WHO DOES ANYTHING THIS UNETHICAL. AND TO BOOT, I HAVE SELECTED THE OPTION TO NOT HAVE MY ACCOUNT PAY OUT ON ANY ITEMS FOR WHICH I DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS. THIS WAY, I WOULD NOT HAVE THE FEES. WELL GUESS WHAT, THEY DID THIS ANYWAY! THERE IS SOME OTHER SMALL TYPE PART TO THIS TOO!
WHAT A RIP OFF! KEY BANK SUCKS!

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avatar Dan
avatar Luke Landes ♦127,455 (Platinum)

I wrote about the Bank of America settlement earlier this year. I added the link in the article above for reference.

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avatar Tom S.

Yes, BofA and now Fifth Third have settled their respective Class Action suits… in the plaintiffs’ favor. The Fifth Third settlement announcement is here:
https://www.overdraftsettlement.com/
There used to be a link on the 53.com website, but it’s aged off, apparently. In any event, I have an email from 5/3 stating that effective 3/25/11, they have revamped how they process credit and debit transactions. Basically, in chronological order, if the timestamp exists, and deposits before debits. Otherwise, in the order received, except for ACH transactions (VISA/MasterCard), which will continue to be in value order. I gather that ACH processing looses all time and date references, so they don’t have any way of knowing which came first. Solution, of course, is to use the card as a debit card whenever possible – at least whenever the possibility of causing an overdraft exists…
5/3 also has an OD “insurance” program, if you can qualify (credit line, basically)
BTW – the actual text of the settlement is available if you Google “Fifth Third Settlement”

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avatar chantel

i want to add about chase bank… you can deposit a check anytime, but they process debits as late as 11pm. your check isnt avail. to you.. but they have no problem chargingyou that overdraft fee when they allow funds transferred out at 11pm.. they know they are in the wrong because i was able to recover $120 in fees due to this shady practice.

Best thing to do is load money for online bills to a prepaid card, pay in cash when you can, and deal w/ the bank only for savings that you want to earn interest on.

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avatar micah smith

Banks make money by keeping you confused. The fees are getting more creative, like charging for paper statements, using a teller for an “online” checking account, ect ect…

THE BEST NEW SCREWJOB IS THIS: Charging you to use YOUR MONEY in your LINKED SAVINGS to AVOID the “overdraft fees” …. so wait a minute, whats the interest rate on auto withdrawing 5 bucks out of MY SAVINGS CASH… to cover a $4.98 purchase… and then charging me a $5.00 for the privlage of using my own money to cover the fee… if I was standing at the bank and withdrew, and then deposited the money their would be no fee, so they argue it is “convienance” fee… In actuality, they are LENDING YOU YOUR OWN MONEY for 1 day amd charging 100% simple interest for the “right to access” your own damn money…. Bank of America, Wells … avoid….

Honestly, platforms like Serve(American Express) and paypal are the last great hope. All the bank regulation will ensure FEES WILL CREATIVELY STAY AHEAD of Legislative Law, and keep your poor “stupid” self confused. You are “stupid” because you cannot read, and comprehensively apply and adopt a 50 page legal disclosure written in a mix of latin, english, and accepted legal jargon that by it’s very nature uses a DIFFERENT DICTIONARY than an english dictionary, so the good corporate lawyers, can easily intentionally appear to be saying one thing to a “stupid commener”, but really are legally saying something quite different. That is why they make <800k a year. They can legally lie through word manipulation, and have a firm legal basis only another lawyer would be able to infer.

Three rules to live by:

1) never keep all you money in one place
2) the world makes money by taking your money
3) money is paper, and is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it… the FED can put all of the non elite in the poor house by flipping a switch (and have by adding a 1.2 trillion dollar printing session to avoid American default on money the Government bowwrowed using tax dollars not collected as leverage).

ING bank – awesome – they don't even do overdrafts, it is a "lending fee" that comes out to under a dollar per transaction… Cap One just bought them out so KEEP YOUR ACCOUNT AGREEMENT! – RESPOND WITH A CERTFIED REFUSAL LETTER when they try to change the terms.

Ally – 8 dollar overdraft fee, only 1 per day

Schwab – will pull from a linked brokerage cash balance for free

other than that, I would look for an honest local credit union.

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avatar Andrew

I work at a bank. Cash deposits should always be made in a branch with a teller. They are available immediatley. If your bank holds cash deposits made in person at a branch, find a new bank. Never spends more than you have in your account and you will never become overdrawn. Opt OUT of your banks standard overdraft practices. This will save you lots of time and money. Also, maybe make one large withdrawl and spend cash for small purchases so they will NEVER overdraft your account due to posting order…

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avatar Scooch

US BANK. Handed the teller cash. Wasn’t counted until the morning after a charge came through. $30. Considered buckling, and depositing cash to cover an upcoming charge. Problem? They’
ll just do it again. And again. And the tellers admit it! There is no apology. There is no refund. There’s not even any shame. US BANK Class actions anyone?

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avatar Gayle

I went to the drive up window at US Bank to cash a government check drawn on their bank and branch. They said I’d have to come inside. I told her I was without my portable oxygen unit and I didn’t have the strength to come in. She told me it would be a $5.00 fee for a $61.00 check. Then she got a manager. She said that if I came in, they would be happy to put the $5.00 in a new account for me. Isn’t that blackmail? Either sign up with us or lose the money? I asked her where the money went. She ignored me, it probably goes to their retirement plans. Must have gotten the idea from the government.

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avatar Margaret

All banks charge a fee for cashing a check with them if you do not have an account there.

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avatar Margaret

And NO I do not work in banking I just want to be fair. There is plenty to complain about across the board. Fractional Reserve banking is a fraud to begin with. They loan you money, charge interest on 100% of the amount yet only have 10% of actual bank assets contributed. The Fed “creates” the remaining 90% on a computer keyboard. Gotta love it. Foreclosures are particularly an interesting concept when you have paid back more than 10% of what you originally owed. Seems to me the bank has already recouped their investment…..

avatar Margaret

I have never had this happen with US Bank. I have even made cash deposits at the bank ATM after closing (but before 7 pm) and had them count it as deposited the following day and immediately allowing access to $200 of it. Teller counter transactions are credited immediately….

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avatar Maria del Rosario Ortiz

If, I paid overdraft fees to Bank of America

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avatar Andrew

You should have recieved a notice to be part of the class for the BOA thing. I got mine in the mail last week. Unfortunatley the customers who were taken advantage of will get a few bucks (likely less than the cost of one OD fee) and the lawyers representing the class will reap many many millions of dollars.

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avatar MYRA GARDNER

Thank you, thank you. I’ve been trying to find “Standard Banking Practices” regarding deposits and withdrawals. Apparently there are no standards. I’ve been doing battle with Alture Credit Union over just this matter. If you deposit cash at an ATM ” DO NOT” use your ATM card until they decide to empty the terminal. When they find out you really did deposit cash, well it’s just to bad for the client because you just racked up about $ 300.00 in overdraft fees.
Thanks so very much for the info.
Myra

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avatar GeorgeE

I’ve found that if your bank doesn’t give you any up front money when you deposit through the ATM and you have cash to deposit. I use a deposit envelope and a deposit slip and drop it in the night deposit. It may not go in right away the next day until midnight, but at least you don’t have to worry about making it there before the banking business day is closed.

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avatar Beverly

I have an account with Compass (a relative of Wachovia), which I have had for many years. They post debits first, then credits. I was just charged 2 $38 fees on the same day when this happened. I asked for an explanation or remedy. They did not respond. I asked again a few weeks later, again – no response.

I just cancelled the direct deposit and auto student loan payment from that account. I’m firing Compass. I noticed that Capital One is offering totally free checking – no minimums – that pays 1% interest.

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avatar Catrina

I’ve been screwed by ING several times. I’ve checked my account online and the money I’m waiting for has been deposited. So, I go to the ATM and make a withdrawal. When I come back, miraculously, the deposit that was there when I checked has suddenly disappeared, only to reappear a few minutes AFTER I made the withdrawal, thus allowing ING to charge me an overdraft fee. It’s only a few cents, but it pisses me off. They’re making millions of dollars a year by doing this with other customers.

I used to love ING but now rarely use them as they’ve become just as scammy as most other banks.

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avatar Jessica

A few cents? while I understand that the deposit disappearing just long enough to charge you is annoying, that sounds way better than what I’ve experienced with WF! I will have to look into this..

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avatar Margaret

Yes, Wells posts then removes credit card transactions you make with the debit/credit card the following day so that you think your balance includes that withdrawal when it doesn’t. An attempt to generate overdrafts. No longer with them. They are one of the WORST in my opinion.

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avatar Tina Nguyen

Banks are all over the place in regards to how and when funds are debited and credited. I have deposited many Chase written checks to my Chase account. Obviously Chase immediately knows if the check is good and can make all funds available immediately. Sometimes they do and sometimes they dont’!

A few times Chase did the switch-a-roo and did not make funds available till the next day. I asked a Chase manager and he said “he’s heard about that, and sometimes it’s kind of hit and miss”.

With the new legistlation with credit card companies, the banks will continue to find creative ways to screw the customer. Of course one can alway have plenty of money in the bank and never have this problem. My issue is that they have rules that their own branch managers cannot clearly define. I showed receipts to the branch manager and all he could say was “hmmmm. that’s weird”.

The banks have ran many models to see which scenario will generate the most revenue. They change accordingly. Yes, it’s business, but it’s also very deceptive.

Example: I have $1000 in the bank.
9:00am I buy breakfast $10
12:00PM, I buy lunch $20
6:00PM, I buy dinner $30
8:00PM, I buy a new TV $995
*My account by the time I buy the TV should be overdrawn. I will get a $30 overdraft fee.
However, many banks will debit the TV first even though it was the last transaction, then my breakfast, lunch, and dinner so each will overdraft for total of $90.

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avatar Margaret

Opt out of “overdraft protecton”. The TV purchase will be “declined”, but there would then be no overdraft on any of the purchases.

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avatar Susan

this JUST happened to me…I have a compass account and noticed an overdraft fee..however my statement never reflected I was overdrawn. Was told by the customer service agent that it was their policy to debit first then credit…so, the can line their pockets with $38 per overdraft. There should be some standardization to bank policy. I’m still shocked…

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avatar Just a Nobody

It should be noted that CASH transactions are to be processed immediately on the same business day the transaction is done and be part of your available balance as per Federal Depository Regulations (Regulation CC…)

The following types of deposits must be made available on the first business day following the banking day of deposit (“next-day availability”):

1. Cash deposited in person to one of your employees.

2. Electronic payments received by your institution for deposit in an account — An electronic payment is considered received (deposited) when your institution has received both payment in collected funds and information on the account and the amount to be credited. (Under other rules, funds for most electronic deposits are made available on the day of deposit.)

3. U.S. Treasury checks deposited in an account held by a payee of the check — Unlike deposit types listed in 4 through 8 below, which pertain to deposits made in person, Treasury checks deposited at an ATM owned by your institution (a “proprietary” ATM) must be accorded next-day availability.

4. U.S. Postal Service money orders deposited in person to one of your employees and into an account held by a payee of the check.

5. Federal Reserve Bank and Federal Home Loan Bank checks deposited in person to one of your employees and into an account held by a payee of the check.

6. State or local government checks deposited in person to one of your employees and into an account held by a payee of the check, if your institution is in the same state as the payor of the check. (Note: If the customer desires next-day availability of funds from these checks, you may require use of a special deposit slip.)

7. Cashier’s, certified, or teller’s checks deposited in person to one of your employees and into an account held by a payee of the check. (Note: If the customer desires next-day availability of funds from these checks, you may require use of a special deposit slip.)

8. Checks drawn on an account held by your institution (“on-us checks”) deposited in person to one of your employees or at on-premises ATMs or night depositories, if the branch or branches involved are in the same state or check-processing region.

9. Deposits that include some checks of types not listed above — The first $100 (or the total amount of the deposit if it is less than $100) of non-“next-day” checks must be made available the next day.

Exceptions: When deposits of types 1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 are not made in person (for example, when they are made at one of your ATMs), the funds must be made available by the second business day. Deposits, cash or check, made at an ATM that you do not own (a “nonproprietary” ATM) must be made available by the fifth business day.

They’ve modified this a bit and if the ATM can ascertain that it’s a cash transaction (Those nifty new envelopeless and formless ATMs…), it’s supposed to be processed the moment they receive the money in the ATM as if it were a teller transaction because the system knows it just got processable cash. Wells Fargo’s ATMs all do this now (and are treated this way)- and there’s other banks working towards this. Any of the above mentioned deposits are supposed to be treated basically as a cash transaction and are to be made available for use the following day if not sooner and they’re supposed to be “processed” first. PERIOD. If you get zapped by “processing” operations like this article discusses- you should be able to read them the riot act from Regulation CC and get them to undo it all. The main reason they do this sort of crap is because while it’s illegal, most people don’t know their rights and won’t call the banks on the carpet over it.

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avatar Todd

I’m pretty sure Chase’s answer is completely false. It seems that they post checks/withdraws from highest to lowest before processing deposits, ACH or otherwise.

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avatar Gayle

While banking at Wells Fargo, inside a safeway store without a drive up window, I nearly went crazy. When I opened the account, they said that to get overrdraft protection, I’d have to open a savings account, with which I could call them anytime to have the funds transfered to checking. Well, I called one day to have them transfer the $ and they said they could no longer do that by phone. I would have to either come in or do it on my computer. I am disabled and on O2 24/7. There is always a long line without seating. So I went online and thought I had done the transfer. The next things that happened was my rent check was returned. I called the bank and they said they could tell I tried to make a transfer but it didn’t go through. How could they tell I tried if it didn’t go through? On my online statement it showed that they had paid the rent check first, and the next day returned it, in order to pay 2 amall checks, charging me $35.00 for each and charged me $5.00 to transfer my money and then another $35.00 for the returned check. The exact amount I ended up overdrawn, was the exact amount of all the charges added up. I don’t bank there now and refuse to pay the fees. I filed a disability complaint that Wells Fargo was made to send me by the Feds. Hip Hip Hooray!

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avatar Ruth Hollis

I just finished an interesting conversation with BBVA Compass regarding a $38 nsf fee charged on an nonreturned check that was presented to them on Monday, Oct.3. An elctronic deposit for retirement funds from the state of Texas, payable the 1st(Saturday) was received and posted on the 3rd, resulting in a positive bank balance at the time the check was processed. The check that cleared was dated and mailed on Saturday(1st), obviously received on Oct. 3, and presented the 3rd. The explanation,of this transaction being nsf was that by dating the check on the first, I was KITING funds since the wire had not been deposited and even though the check was not presented for payment. The explanation was that the bank always relies on the check date to see if funds were sufficient at the time it was written. The moral of the story is (1) do not write and hold unditributed checks and (2) find a more honest bank.

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avatar Pamela Lopez

I also have been a victim of BOA’s policy to manipulate the order by which checks are processed. When I spoke to them I stated that I had been a cusotmer for over 30 years (show a little mercy, and beginning with Barnett Bank in 1978) The response? “Well if I have been a bank customer for over 30 years I should have known better” So I am happy that they will answer for their arrogance. Also, I have a young friend who worked for Wachovia, she had a postion that allowed her to grow in the company and had to attend classes. She told me that “This is how banks make their money by manipulating the order by which checks are processed.” She learned that this is their practice. It’s disqusting! Bank officials get their astonomical bonuses and it’s at the expense of the working class who live from paycheck to paycheck.

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avatar JSullivan

I would not trust any commercial bank. Remember, investment banks are the only banks that work your money–Commercial banks only work you.

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avatar Larry

Ended up with TD Bank by default after my community bank failed. My pension is due and payable on the last day of the month and was always credited that way with the community bank. Not with TD. It does not post until the first. They are literally sitting on billions of free dollars for a day. It’s criminal and by the time the end of the month rolls around, I’m flat broke!

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avatar Suzanne Adams

After making a deposit of a large cashier check into my bank of america checking account, I waited 4 days to see that it was clear. On the forth day I saw that it was showing that it was clear in my statement online…so thinking it showed up a cleared I spent some of the money…by the end of the day they had taken the amount back out of the account saying the check was no good…well why did they lead me to believe it was good and cleared. I’ll tell you why, so they could get the overdraft of $35 on every withdrawal….I am a low income person…struggling to put food on my table and pay my bills. Now this…I am over draft $950 with no way to recover…what do i do now?

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avatar Josephine Chrestman

I deposited a check with Cadence Bank. I asked them after 7 days if it had gone through because I didn’t trust my ex’s check. They said That it had not been returned I could expect it would not come back. I had 13 overdraft fees( $507.00) when that came back 2 days later. How does a bank hold a check 9 days before returning it. Banks don’t use U.S. mail to transfer from bank to bank. That was ridiculous.

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avatar Nancy

I had a whole page of things BOA has done in the past and now my computer is acting up and erased the whole thing. Therefore, I will cut to the punch line and hope my computer allows it. It is my firm belief that we should all revert to burying our money in a Mason jar under the mattress or in a coffee can – if we don’t have a back yard. Face it~we are not making any money off our bank accounts. The banks are making a small fortune on one branch alone. It might even be a good idea to go back to the barter system so we don’t have to worry about checks, etc. Since that is not likely to happen, maybe our bosses should have the bank accounts and take out cash to pay their employees. Then, for those who need to mail off a payment (and who doesn’t?) we can go to the local grocery store’s customer service or the local 7-11 and BUY A MONEY ORDER WITH THE CASH WE HAVE ON HAND. The banks can then do what we do every day of our lives and wonder where the money went! And OMG! how am I going to survive? If they aren’t all too busy scrambling to find another job, maybe it will hit their pea-brain that KARMA just made a delicious withdrawal/deposit for us all. Maybe they will be at the next food bank we go to. Ah-h-h the possibilities are endless.

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avatar carol

Everybody already knows banks are like politicians, out for only them selves, greedy. Thats why so many people hide their money at home. Am i right? YES!

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avatar Kamran Usman

I have an account at PNC bank, my account showed an amount deducted as ACH debit from capital one which I did not authorized and I don’t know who did it, PNC keep sayng the can’t do any thing with ACH debit , please some one advise me what to do, how to get that money back

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avatar GeorgeE

From my experience with PNC of Monroeville, PA. They’re a lot better to talk to if you go into the branch. From what I know from ACH debits, that’s something you set up to be withdrawn. If it’s not call Capital One and ask their customer service.

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avatar bree

some consumers are unclear about what type of account they have. some businesses unfortunately still operate on the don’t ask don’t tell. but if we ask and you don’t disclose, this will make you liable for those overdrafts and fees. then there are people that are just cheap and don’t realize the benefits of their banking relationship. some good some not so good!!!

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avatar John

This applying transactions from higher to lower is “bull”…. Transactions should be processed in the order they come in, period… find me a bank that does that and that will be the bank I do business with.

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avatar Adubs923

TD (formerly Commerce) Bank will charge an overdraft even if you deposit money before the pending charges become actual charges. I’ve been charged overdraft on items that never actually charged or charged AFTER the deposit. When I inquired about $105 in o/d fees even though my account was not overdrawn their response was: “In the event you do not have the availability of funds in your account to cover all of the items presented that Business Day, a $35.00 overdraft fee may be assessed for each item, as a result of the processing order from highest to lowest. Pending transactions are also considered for the purpose of determining the amount of funds in your account to be used to pay other items presented against your account.”
So whether I cover the pending overdraft or not they still charge!

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avatar Peter

I got once into never-ending loop of overdraft charges with Bank of Scotland. And since they charge £5 a day it’s easy to imagine how difficult is it to stand back on your feet when on low income or unemployed. Starting with a few quids into overdraft you’re owing almost a half grand after just three months. That’s even more expensive than payday loans and provident-like loans.
Generally speaking banks want your money and they don’t care whether you can afford their charges and fees.

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avatar Jason Nichols

People are pretty stupid. If you are going to spend money, check and make sure you have money to spend, first. If you have automated withdrawals, make sure your balance IS ALWAYS such that the withdrawl will go through. If you are depositing a check, yes, it will take a day or two to process. If you are depositing at an ATM, it takes the bank time to open your envelope and make sure it actually has the reported amount in it. This isn’t rocket science and you don’t have to be rich to be responsible. I make sure my bank account is weeks ahead of my bills on a little more than $15k/yr. If you choose to live so close to the wire, you deserve every late fee and overdraft charge you get.

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avatar Vicki Iffland

Oh you are wrong about Citizen. They post all withdrawn from your account first. After all them go through than they apply your deposits. So they are too a bank that traps you. They have do e it to me 2 already. Its huge B.S… my direct despoits should post first but nope. They post after any debts

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avatar Cali

Just out of curiosity how many posting read the terms and conditions just on this page? How many (being honest I know it is hard) knew you grant Consumerism Commentary an irrevolcable license to use, display, republish, sell, alter, or delete your comment in any way and for any reason? If this company decides to sell this quote for a profit without sharing that information with me I HAVE given consent to do so by the terms and conditions CLEARLY POSTED.

Now…banks operate in the same manner. In just a few short minutes I was able to check the posting orders of some of the banks listed in the comments above by simply going to the websites of those financial institutions. They are in the website! Your job as a consumer is to make sure you know the rules of the financial institution you are dealing with. It is the job of the consumer (you) to know the rules of their bank not the bank to know the rules of the other banks. I’m not saying there are never errors made but you should know your bank operates overall and that information is generally clearly posted on those sites per federal regulation.

Just maaaaybe instead of a few minutes fuming online to strangers we should be more concerned about educating ourselves on how our accounts operate.

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avatar Kenneth Ketchum

M and T Bank used to nail me all the time for overdraft fee’s by changing my withdrawal amounts so that the withdrawal largest would negate my previous withdrawals/charges//pending amounts, so that the last or largest was rearranged FIRST to wipe the account about dry and not be able to cover the other costs/charges.

They would do this towards the end of the month, holding/pending charges for up to a week or longer, I would be getting or making a deposit within a day or so, so I might over draft the account in essence to get gas or something I actually NEEDED, they would then pend the deposit, rearrange everything and get me for up to a dozen over drafts, sending out multiple letters, even after the deposit cleared.

I always called this “stacking and “fixing”. I got good at recording this and keeping a record of it, but all to no avail when calling and asking, WHY, due to the fact I had friends with business’s that would say the deduction to my account cleared, days before and they had the cash in hand//their account cleared and available; yet according to my M and T online banking statement//overview it would show totally different totals and deductions and show that one might even still be pending, and then stack that accordingly so as to use it to get an overdraft.

Sorry for my horrid grammar and such, anyways, this has ended for the most part, even though they still stack, fix and pend a lot and rearrange it a lot, I have only had a few overdrafts that amounted to 35-38 dollars and several that were like 10-20.

I have even had cash put in take a few days to clear, when cashing a check drawn on m and t, I would cash the check, have cash in hand, then say, deposit this here and this here, and that cash would be held for up to five days at times.

Now I cash the check, drive around the block and THEN and ONLY THEN deposit the cash.

Only one time have they tried to put it in and hold it and I went into the bank and said I cashed a 3500 dollar check on their bank, then later brought in 1500/2000 to deposit, so why was it considered still the check, and why if drawn on their bank and funds were available, why was it not available to me?

They fixed it as a cash deposit and it was available. Which made it easier for me, but I have waited up to 5 days for cash to clear when they claimed it was relative to the check I cashed perhaps up to an our previous and stopped back in to deposit that cash so as to be avail.

Okay now I’m being redundant, anyways, M and T is now pretty much righteous with me and even though my spouse uses PNC and demands I change, I will stay with M and T.

It’s also my mothers bank, so that is another reason.

Thank you.

kk

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avatar Robin

Add First National BAnk to this list,.. They do the same thing. How can banlks legally get away with this. They also put Payroll Direct Deposit on hold which is against the law. They can not do that this according to the Department of the Treasury but they do it.

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