Is it discrimination to cancel a customer’s checking account for their bad credit? ING Direct has done so to Nick, who emailed me (and Consumerist) a complaint forwarded to the ING Direct ombudsman. ING Direct has closed his Electric Orange account, a checking account that earns 0.20% – 1.10% APY currently.
Evidently, ING Direct performs periodic account reviews and will close accounts from customers who may abuse their overdraft protection based on credit reports. Nick admitted he had been “living in” the $1,000 overdraft protection (more like a cash advance). That could have triggered the account review.
I must express that I am heartbroken!! Yes, I have credit that is less than desirable, but I do not feel that is a basis for your discriminatory actions. Your decision has left me heartbroken, and also feeling foolish for all the recommendations that I’ve made to people for ING Direct…
Also of note, I have received two letters from your company regarding making more than “six transfers” from my savings. After the first letter, I carefully planned my transactions in such a way that I would use 2-3 transactions on each of my savings accounts, after which point they would be used for deposit only. ING Direct does not to tell people that they count transfers among ALL the savings accounts for a customer number toward the six each month.
As someone who received a similar six-transfer-maximum letter, I am sure Nick is misinformed on this point. The limit is six per account, not per SSN, as confimed by an ING Direct customer service representative. Nick probably received a second letter after changing the withdrawals because these letters are delayed by at least a month.
But this issue is unrelated to the closing of the checking account. Was this done fairly? Continue reading for ING Direct’s initial notice and Nick’s full response.
This letter was sent from ING Direct to Nick.
Dear Nicholas,
Customer Number: XXXXXXXXXXBased on your credit score, which was provided by a consumer-reporting agency, we have decided to close your account. We have reduced your Overdraft Line of Credit to zero ($0). We feel this action is in your best interest as well as ours.
Because we want to make sure you have time to manage the transition of your account, we will leave the deposit portion of your account open for the next 30 days. Please use that time to:
* Change any direct deposits you currently have scheduled for your Electric Orange.
* Update any bill payments that are currently set up for your Electric Orange.
* Repay any outstanding balance you might have on the Overdraft Line of Credit.
* Allow any pending transactions to clear.After 30 days, you will not be able to use your Electric Orange – it will be restricted from all account activity. This means you will not be able to transfer funds in to or out of your Electric Orange or use your MasterCard(r) debit card.
Any account balance plus any interest earned on your Electric Orange will be transferred back to your external, linked checking account five business days later. However, if we know of transactions that have not cleared within those five days, we will wait to transfer funds until those transactions have been processed.
Please keep in mind, that while information from a consumer-reporting agency in whole or in part influenced our decision, the reporting agency did not make this decision and cannot provide information about it. However, if you have any specific questions regarding your credit report, you can contact that agency directly using the following information:
Equifax
Consumer Services
Atlanta, GA 30374-0241
1-800-685-1111
www.equifax.comUnder section 612 of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, you have a right to obtain a free copy of your credit information on file at the agency, if your request is made within 60 days of receiving this notice. Under Section 611 of the Act, you also have the right to dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in that report.
Please note this does not affect any other accounts you may have with ING DIRECT. In addition, you are welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days. If you have any questions, you can give us a call at 1-888-464-0727 from 8 AM to 8 PM any day of the week.
Thank you.
Here is Nick’s full response. Is it warranted?
When I first opened my ING Account, the rates, services and products were unlike anything I’d encountered in the banking world! The ING Direct website is fantastic, easy-to-use and VERY helpful. If one calls your call center, the representatives are always helpful, enthusiastic, and definitely one of the better customer service experiences out there. You deserve a great kudos
for that!However, I have enclosed an email that I received yesterday, and I must express that I am heartbroken!! Yes, I have credit that is less than desirable, but I do not feel that is a basis for your discriminatory actions. Your decision has left me heartbroken, and also feeling foolish for all the reccomendations that I’ve made to people for ING Direct. You can bet that has ceased, and will be replaced with a stern warning for anyone considering opening any kind of account with your company. I have also re-advised people to whom I have reccommended ING Direct to in the past, as I wish no one to have to go through this terrible situation. I’ve also advised several finance ‘blogs as to ING Direct’s new practices, as they have spoken very highly of your company in the past.
Also of note, I have recieved two letters from your company regarding making more than “six transfers” from my savings. After the first letter, I carefully planned my transactions in such a way that I would use 2-3 transactions on each of my savings accounts, after which point they would be used for depost only. ING Direct does not to tell people that they count transfers among ALL the savings accounts for a customer number toward the six each month. This practice is misleading, and should be clarified in future letters sent out.
I have closed out my CD’s, and all but two accounts. I will eventually be closing all of my accounts, and using only my local Credit Union.
Thank you for your time, and I wish you the best of luck in the future.
I still hold a good portion of my cash at ING Direct, though in a few months I plan on simplifying my finances and reducing the number of banks I do business with.
Updated October 13, 2011 and originally published May 10, 2007. If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to the RSS feed or receive daily emails. Follow @flexo on Twitter and visit our Facebook page for more updates.
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I had been notified that my account was set to close due to bad credit (I was only extended $250 of overdraft and wasn’t using it excessively), but I just got an email stating my account would NOT be closed and the overdraft is already back!
Well now…I just received this email:
On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.
If you have any questions, give us a call at
1-888-464-0727.
Jim Kelly
Chief Operating Officer
ING DIRECT
Sounds to me like they’re just trying to mitigate the damage done, after seeing the kind of fallout brewing. If you have any doubt about this, go back to the original text of this thread, and check out the wording of the original letters sent out. That was CLEARLY not an accident, or simply a matter of poor semantics. This was a deliberate action.
To the people who got these letters in the first place (and to ppl thinking about using ING): do you really want to give your money to this bank for safekeeping? Seems to me that ING’s #1 priority is: I N G, not the customer, as it should be.
I just received the same email – they closed it and now reopened it. I never requested OD protection, they provide it automatically, and I never abused it.
If enough people zeroed out their accounts or closed their accounts. It really can do damage on a bank. Most banks don’t have the cash on hand to cover mass withdrawls.
This is text from a banking FAQ..
“If all depositors were to withdraw just 10% of their deposits, the bank would have to close their doors!”
ING Direct and Electric Orange Account…. I don’t think any of the above understands the OverDraft Line of Credit on the Electric Orange Account. ING calls it “Spending Power”…your account balance plus your OverDraft Line. You are encouraged to use it. You do have a minimum payment and due date. You are charged 12% interest when you use your OverDraft Line of credit. ING says they do not check your credit to open the account…but, has the right to do so. They have the right to close an account for no reason.
I had an EO account with OD. I have never used my OD…nor planned to use it. It was a nice token from ING. My credit is good with 3 out of the 4 agencies. But, a little problem, on going, with Equifax caused ING to close my account like everyone elses. There email was rude…it too hurt my feelings. I liked the EO because it gave me fast access to my savings if I did ever need it….Like HSBC, BOA or my Wacohvia checking and savings. But, I emptied my EO checking into my savings and then closed my savings. I can save my money anywhere…like HSBC or even Capital One or any Money Market Account…Paypal even pays a good rate.
Now, today…ING sends an email saying my account closing was a mistake and my EO with my OD is restored. Why, this sudden change of heart from ING? Was it truly a mistake? Or do they really miss my automatic deposits every two weeks? And if I go back and reopen my savings and use my EO…what is to say that they will not do this again and again…..
Carl, I completely agree.
You spelled out how “overdraft” or OLOC works with ING, to the other rude commenters, and I appreciate it.
They are not aware the the OLOC amount is included in your “SPENDING POWER” by default. You can not have an EO account, WITHOUT automatic OLOC protection.
Secondly, I really thought I would like ING; the website is easy, the transactions have been smooth, and for once, aside from my 401k, I thought hey, I can actually save money and cash in on the higher interest rate.
Well, this email is a major mistake, whether intentional, or not. Eventually word gets around about sudden account closures, and then sudden reinstatements?
I know ING’s longstanding reputation; but questions about reliability and STABILITY are huge questions when it involves a person’s money. I never received the letter, my account was never closed, but I’m in the process of opening another account with a different bank.
And it sucks; but I have to look out for me.
I think what simplemind said rings true more than any of the other theories…they’re seeing gobs of money flowing out the door all at once and need to try to mitigate it somehow.
Me thinks the damage is already done to some degree, no matter how much backpedaling they attempt.
Liz: Thanks for stopping by to let us know about your conversation with the ING Direct CEO, Arkady Kuhlmann.
Whether or not ING Direct now supports the plan, the idea to eliminate a fair number of EO/OLOC customers was intentional. The letter was clear and the CSRs had the information as well.
No, the original plan is not fair to people who have bad credit through no fault of their own. Neither are mortgage applications or anything else that relies heavily on a credit score.
A better option for ING would have been to remove just the OLOC for those customers viewed as at risk for default. ING *does* mislead its customers by giving a total “spending power” calculation (above the normal account balance) that includes the OLOC, encouraging people to spend beyond what they have.
This flies in the face of the corporate money management philosophy for its customers that ING Direct has shown for years with its formerly weekly tips newsletter.
If I had received the original letter, I would have removed all my money from ING Direct. Even after receiving the apology letter, I would not have moved the funds back. There are many other options for online banking available, some of which pay higher interest than ING Direct.
I also recieved the same email that Nick did, however this evening I recieved another from ING’s COO that stated the following:
Customer Number: XXXXXXXXXX
On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.
If you have any questions, give us a call at
1-888-464-0727.
Jim Kelly
Chief Operating Officer
ING DIRECT
—–
I also have less than desirable credit, however I was frustrated that ING made a poor business decision by not checking credit scores to begin with. When I called the CSR was overly apologetic as I explained that I just changed all of my direct deposits and withdrawels from my old bank to ING.
Now that I spent all of my time today changing them back to the old bank, I highly doubt that I will ever change them back to ING.
Take away my line of credit as you wish, but it’s a deposit account and I highly doubt any other customers would be affected by it being closed at any time.
Thank you, Nick. Without a response from customers like us, they would have been able to get away with this.
Not that this has any impact on anything, but they have officially changed their policy regarding credit checks to OPEN accounts. As currently posted on their EO FAQ page:
Do you pull my credit if I apply for Electric Orange and the Overdraft Line of Credit?
Yes. As part of your application, ING DIRECT will obtain information about you from a consumer credit reporting agency (a “hard pull�) to confirm that you are eligible for Electric Orange.
Seems like they are being pretty cut and dry with these account closures. When I called to discuss mine (and ask to keep the account with $0 OLOC as I have only used it once–when I changed jobs and was dealing with the change in payroll dates), the CSR said that even his account was closed. One of their own employees–it’s not like they don’t know exactly how much or when funds will be direct deposited! And he doesn’t even have bad credit–just not a lot of it (only student loans). I’m trying to decide exactly what to do with my money now that the account is reopened. Do I like it enough to stick around and deal? Maybe. I will be examining the HSBC account since everybody seems to speak so highly of it. I’ve been w/ ING for 3 yrs and up to this point have had nothing but raves for them, but this is just ridiculous. Get it right the first time (run credit checks), and don’t muck it up even worse when you realize you’ve made a mistake.
Oh, and Nick: I am white, college-educated, suburban, and admittedly fairly privileged (even though I can never remember how to spell privilege), yet hopefully not self-righteous or scum. Would my opinion count if I were to disagree with you?
I called to check on my EO account. It is still closed and will remain closed. I guess I didn’t make the cut.
All the e-mails for those who made the cut were sent out on Wednesday. If you didn’t yet receive an E-mail, your account will likely be closed.
Thought I would pass along the information not everbody’s account will be re-opened.
All of a sudden they are doing a hard pull? They are bastards. this is after they previously said…
Does ING do a hard pull? No
Are you sure you don’t pull my credit to get the Overdraft Line of Credit?
Yes – positive. We do not check or ‘ding’ your credit. The standard $1,000 line does not even show up on your credit report, unless of course you don’t pay us back.
Is there any way the people who received this letter could post their credit scores? I am curious where the cutoff was. As I posted above, my Equifax is 660, other scores are 670 and 680, and I did not receive the letter. Post anonymously.
“ING does mislead its customers by giving a total “spending powerâ€Â? calculation (above the normal account balance) that includes the OLOC, encouraging people to spend beyond what they have.”
I copied that quote from above. I will have to side with the people who feel this is misleading. While I agree that it is your responsibility to keep track of your account balance and know what you have, when you go to write a check, they do not list your account balance. The only thing they list is “Spending Power”
I’ll give you an idea what my score was. I got my ING account around 12/06. My credit score hit rock bottom. I had some emergency home repairs and car repairs hit all at once. I skipped payments on cars, and credit cards to fix the problems. I eventually got caught up.
Here is my credit score month to month sice I got Electric Orange.
478– 12/06
506– 1/07
513 — 2/07
527 — 3/07
524 — 4/07
570 — 5/07
So, I too received the email from Electric Orange where they notified me that they were closing my account. I love ING direct, and I was disappointed by this decision. I sent an email to ING firmly stating that I thought this was a bad decision and that I was a good ING customer. I have never used my overdraft credit line. My email was firm, but polite.
A couple of days later, ING for some reason reversed this decision and sent me the following e-mail:
“On behalf of my colleagues at ING DIRECT, I wish to sincerely apologize for the email you received regarding the closure of your Electric Orange. Your checking account will not be closed as indicated in the email correspondence. Also, your overdraft line of credit will be active within 48 hours. You are a valued Customer and we encourage you to continue to use this account. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this mistake may have caused you.
If you have any questions, give us a call at
1-888-464-0727.
Jim Kelly
Chief Operating Officer
ING DIRECT”
As you can see, this was a great surprise to me. My credit score is abysmal as I filed for bankruptcy 6 months ago. I’m not quite sure why ING reversed its decision, but all I can say is that I’m happy that I get to keep my account.
Just got this email. Kiss up to customer time?
That’s right, from June 1, 2007 to July 31, 2007, when you use your Electric Orange MasterCard® Debit Card to make a signature-based purchase, you’ll get 1% Cash Back, up to $500, on what you spend, anywhere. It’s simple. Just use your Card for every-day purchases like, groceries, clothing, gas, or even to pay utility bills and insurance premiums. It all adds up to a Cash Back reward for you.
I had the same experience, but instead of replying in an email I chose to call. The reps must’ve already taken many calls to the same effect and they sounded harried and were verbally abusive. It is a line of credit with interest charged connected to a checking account. I only used it once and paid back three times the minimum amount (for a total of $300/month). I had just made my second payment when they closed the account BEFORE I received the email explaining what had happened. I found out at the gas station on my way to work when my card was declined. I immediately transferred the balance back into ING after I was threatened with being reported to the credit bureau if I did not pay ahead of schedule.
As soon as my payment cleared, I received the bulk email apologizing for the inconvenience. It neglected to apologize for the insults from the reps I spoke to and for the embarassment of having a card with hundreds of available “spending power” declined. I have never had a card declined in my life.
As a result, I am now attempting to close my account which is a lot harder to do as a customer than it is to do as the bank!
I have moved the money from my ING savings to EmigrantDirect and am getting 5.0% APY. I was a customer of ING’s since March of 2004, and referred to them many customers which I then came to regret. I am happy to add that explaining their whimsical see-saw approach to banking decisions to my business associates and community members that we have collectively withdrawn over $400,000! I don’t place my money in the hands of someone I don’t trust and the same holds true for the bank that holds my money.
Don’t trust ING!!!
I wish ING Direct would say what the mistake was. 5,300 mistakes is a lot of mistakes. I called ING today and verified that my EO/OLOC was infact open. They didn’t appologize over the phone for the mistake but, they did reopen my savings account, that I had closed, in two seconds flat. I like ING, after four years, I’ll give it another go. I like the EO because it is fast access to my savings and having the OLOC isn’t a bad thing though I trust I will never use it. I like saving my money. EO can not replace BoA checking with billpay. I even use Wocohvia as my local bank…since BoA doesn’t have a branch in my state.
My credit isn’t great but it isn’t horrible and improves monthly. Unless you have ever hit rock bottom like I had in the past you might not appreciate my collection of checking and saving accounts. Your world can turn on a dime too. I say this for the snobs of poor credit scores in the previous post. Try losing your job, because the company you worked 20 years for went under, be unemployed for two years, have your house burn down, your spouse die, burn through your life savings, become homeless for two years, lose 125lbs because of hunger….then not be able to get a job, when one is actually open that you are not under or over qualified for, because your credit score prevents you from being acceptable and you can’t open a checking account when you finially get a job for minimum wage (by begging) because of your credit score and have to pay 5-10% just to get your paycheck cashed. Don’t be a credit score snob…it isn’t becoming.
So ING made a mistake or a bad decision, whatever. I am human I have made a few myself. But, it seems they are trying to right the wrong. I’ll give ING another chance because they were among the first to give me another chance. But, I did give them several C’s and F’s on their report card….and perhaps before you run away from them, or not, you might also give them deserving grade for their “mistake” towards you. ING like all companies pride themselves on their Customer Service Scores. I just hope that one day I will feel the joy of the Orange again and be able to give them all A’s again.
I can’t forgive this mistake. Sorry.
I was on a business trip. I used my Overdraft Protection to pay for my expenses. My employer reimburses me and I usually pay the OD back within a few days.
Here is my story. Imagine being out of town, debit card stopped working, and no means to pay for ANYTHING?
I eventually had to use a Check Advance place.
Why should I NOT be upset?
When I contacted CS, it didn’t sound like a mistake. They were rude and the atitude was “too bad”.
I don’t care if my account is back up or not! ING can keep it. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again.
I got the same email and when I contacted the credit bureau they said there was nothing wrong with my score, nor had there been any recent changes.I received an email from ING in two days reinstating the account and overdraft (which I have never used) and saying the account had been closed in error.
I’m a new customer to ING, and I admit the Electric Orange account was a big reason why I opened an account with them. I consistently have low balances in my checking accounts because I funnel money into my bills and savings accounts. I do not overdraft. I thought it would be great to have a checking account with no limits on withdrawals, and interest. I figured making $0.10 would be better than gaining nothing.
I have amazingly good credit, despite carrying a large debt balance. I’m very concerned about these reports I am reading about and how people have been treated. If ING is going to deny an account based on credit, they need to do so at the time of application. It’s the only right way to treat the consumer.
However, ING is totally within their rights to close an account for excessive abuse of the overdraft line. Excessive overdrafts *will* get your accounts closed at almost any bank, regardless of how fast you pay it back. Knowingly writing a bad check (debit, whatever) *is* illegal.
ING should get rid of the “Spending Power” terminology included in the overdraft line.
They should also send a warning letter for excessive overdraft usage before terminating an account. It’s good customer service to give the customer a chance to 1) know they are doing something wrong 2) correct the situation.
You know, I’m curious to know what “abusing your overdraft line” means.
First of all, you give me a line of credit. Read here http://home.ingdirect.com/about/about.asp?s=News#03272007 and scroll down to the “Are you going to offer credit cards?” question. So, ING Direct’s PRESIDENT says this — then they give you this line of credit you didn’t ask for, and say, here’s a “debit” card you can use to access that line of credit.. err — “overdraft protection”. Talk about deceptive.
Anyway, they give you this line of credit, present it to you as your “spending power”. OK… so, I go ahead and SPEND my “spending power”. Which part do you call “abuse” again?
I mean, don’t forget, every time I dip into the overdraft, you get paid the 12% interest (or however much). I presumably can’t spend past the line of credit… so, how exactly do I “abuse” this?
More aptly put… how do I “abuse” my SPENDING POWER?
It does seem ING is offering a “credit line” instead of “overdraft protection”. They *are* encouraging you to use it.
http://home.ingdirect.com/faqs/faqs.asp?s=Overdraft
How does the Overdraft Line of Credit work?
The Overdraft Line of Credit covers you if you make a withdrawal that takes your Electric Orange balance below $0.00.
Example: You have $1000 available in your Electric Orange. You want to buy a new laptop computer for $1,100. Since you have a $165 Overdraft Line of Credit available to you, you can use your Card to buy that laptop. The charge for $1,100 will be approved. Your Electric Orange balance will appear as -$100 on our website. You will now be paying a competitive interest rate on the $100 you have borrowed.
They are liars.. here’s what I got:
Dear Nicholas,
We received your email and would like to follow up with you to address your concerns. We understand that you may see our closing your account as a drastic measure, but our experience with Electric Orange so far has taught us (keep in mind, we’ve never had an account like this before — we admittedly continue to learn) that we should have incorporated credit scores into the criteria that we used to determine whether or not an account should be opened. So, we have built an account review process that considers that information and we’ve started to take action on existing accounts that do not meet our review standards.
This does not affect any other accounts you might have with ING DIRECT. While we are unable to allow your account to remain open, please know that you are welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days. If you have any additional questions, please let us know.
Thank you,
Laura Records
ING DIRECT
***Simplemind (or anyone who received the account closing letter) question:
How long after the AR credit pull was done, before you received the letter to close?
My EO account hasn’t been closed yet.
05/18/2007
I called ING, and inquired about the account closings that have been going on (my credit is shot due to losing my high income job, and going on unemployment for awhile) so I was worried.
The CSR was friendly…but I laughed when she says “you have wonderful credit.” I do NOT have “wonderful credit” so that shocked me.
She said that “people were using the accounts not as ING intended; the EO is supposed to be used as a transaction account. She said they weren’t using it to make bill payments, etc. She said some people were just dipping into the OLOC, and even THAT was going negative (past the credit line).
My account has not been canceled *yet*. I have an automatic savings plan in place from another source, and my bi-weekly direct deposit primarily goes into the EO. I do pay car payments, cell phone bill etc out of it..but I do not maintain a high balance.
We *know* a soft pull was done when we opened our accounts, because we all have varying amounts of a credit line available. It goes up to 1,000, and I’ve seen people with 165 available. That was determined by a credit check. I think the difference now, is that the actual approval process will refuse anyone with a low score, instead of assigning a low credit line.
Should I close my account ahead of time, or not? Arghhh this is irritating.
I wouldn’t be as mad as if I received a nicely worded e-mail like that as my 30 day notice.
They REALLY should have grandfathered in all of the current account holders. I had various checking accounts in the past. On a couple of occasions I was grandfathered into things like Fee Free Checking, even when they started charging fees. I was grandfathered in an interest bearing checking account when I no longer met the criteria for an interest bearing checking account. I was grandfathered into an account when all of a sudden I needed to hold a minimum average daily balance of $1,000..
I can’t really see how small OD protection balances of $100 to $300 would be a serious problem to a large bank institution like ING direct.
Actually Destardi the amount of the OLOC depended on when you opened the EO account…the earliest ones got the $1000 and it slowly went down from there.
durablend, not questioning you, but how do you know this?
Either way, a soft pull WAS done during the account process. It showed up on my credit report.
I never had a soft pull on my report when my account was opened. If they did they would have saw my credit in the 450 to 475 range.Which is about as rock bottom as you can get.
When did you start your account? As I understand it the credit check started sometime in March or April.
My account started in December. A soft pull didn’t show up till April 10th. My account was closed around May 11th or so.
I thought the previous OD protection amount was determined by how long you had your account, and the balances you kept.
A friend of mine got a credit card with a $40,000 balance transfer limit no interest for 36 months. He used the balance transfer check to write a $40,000 check to himself, deposited to ING Direct, collected a few grand in intrest, and paid it back. Based on that deal he got EO with $1,000 OD protection right away.
I believe mine was $250.00.
I opened my account April 10th, and a soft pull was done then. Another one was done April 24th.
Interesting reading. I too have an EO savings and EO checking. My credit is not so great, use to be in the 700 club, but medical expenses of a mother in law and pay her rent put a strain. Anyway, will see what happens, no emails as of yet from ING.
Blah to the credit score snobs, people with real life un-expected financial expenses can have a credit score drop. This would be a small thing compared to who we really are, people, not credit scores. The credit scoring modles are set up for people to fail anyway, no late payments, or collections, I just have a low score due to the fact I closed a few credit cards with balances. The cards are not “Maxed Out” but since the accounts are closed, no available balance is reported, which gives the false illusion of being “Maxed Out”. Ridiculious! Oh, I am white, collage educated and would never judge someone’s character based on a credit score, unless I enjoyed building up myself based on others difficult financial situations.
I had my account “frozen” in mid-April.
It took me 3 weeks (and an email cc’d to ING Direct’s media contact)
to get even a form email that my complaint was being forwarded to the “Customer Satisfaction Department”.
A few days later, I got an email from a “laura records” saying that they were sorry for my frustration and that they are “unable to open another account for you at this time” and that I was “welcome to re-apply for another Electric Orange again in 30 days” which implies (but doesn’t actually say) that my account is closed.
Needless to say, I don’t seem to have any recourse in this matter. Oh well…
Same thing happened to me, but I didn’t get the “We’re sorry” e-mail.
I sent an e-mail venting my frustration and got the Laura Records e-mail, with:
“We received your email regarding Electric Orange and would like to follow up to address your concerns. First, we are sorry for any frustration this has caused. As you know, Electric Orange is a new product for us. Based on information we have gathered over the last few months, we have decided that moving forward, we are making certain that a person’s credit standing is part of our account opening review process. Additionally, we are taking action on existing accounts that don’t meet our review standards.
Please know this does not affect your credit or any other accounts you might have with ING DIRECT. You can request a free copy of your credit information which is on file at the agency if your request is made within 60 days of the original notice you received. And, you can dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in that report. If you have any specific questions regarding your credit report, you can contact the agency directly using the following information:”
Then it went to Equifax, yaddaydda.
The funny thing about this is that I was one of the ones that was OFFERED the EO before it was released to the public. Neat, eh?
They closed my account, so I immediately transferred the negative amount back. I was one of the accounts they re-opened, and I was totally ticked off that they did. I certainly didn’t tell them I wanted my account re-oponed. I had already cut up my card! But then I realized it might be slightly gratifying to transfer out $950 of the $1000 “spending power” they chose to give me again. So I did. :D
So.. What if you still have an Overdraft Protection balance after the account is closed? I would assume the amount you owe for OD protection would be past due at the time the account was closed.
What are they going to do? There’s nothing in the terms that talk about late fees. It just says if you default you will be responsible for the collection costs whatever that means.
What if they immediately zap the money out of your linked Checking account? Can they legally do that?
I would think they can’t report to the credit bureau unless you are 30 days past due. Due date would be the date your account is closed.
I owe them $115.00 in OD protection. I am a little ticked. At first I was thinking of dragging my feet on paying them back.. Let them send me a few letters, let them give me a few collection calls.
I guess defaulting on it for a little while would not be the best form of revenge. Maybe keeping 2 or 3 accounts open with a balance of a penny or two and requesting mailed monthly statements would be better.
I am curious, say you had $10 in the account with $1000 of overdraft and made a purchase for $15. Now you’re at -$5. Do they then allow you to make another purchase up to $995 or once you’re in the negative is your card rejected?
Nick and others,
I feel bad for you, I really do. I can empathize with your situation — you’re trying to make things better and a company hits you when you’re down… however… they didn’t really treat you unfairly, any business can withdraw their offer of services at any time (unless it violates discrimination laws). Credit score is not protected like race, creed, sexuality or disability.
Now, as someone who is white and college-educated (who earned scholarships, thanks)… let me offer a piece of advice (besides that whole “don’t blame other people for your issues especially since you don’t know what other people went through to become those scummy college-educated people you so deride”).
Just because someone offers you a line of credit doesn’t mean you should take advantage of it. You know, I have a credit card with a $20,000 limit on it. How much do you think I have in balance? $0. Just because I have it doesn’t mean I have to use it. I keep it to keep my credit score up. I use it monthly and pay off the balances. Occasionally I will carry a small balance (less than a hundred dollars) to show that I can pay off debt when need be.
Let’s face the reality of the situation: while you may see it as a line of credit, you’re purposely allowing your checking account to fall below $0. That’s negligent. You seem intelligent enough to realize that “spending power” is bubkas. I’m sure if you added all your credit cards in, your spending power would go through the roof… but that doesn’t mean you’re going to go max out your credit cards tomorrow. The reality is: Checking Account Balance is your money in your bank that you can withdraw for cash tomorrow, “OLOC Spending Power” is not. It comes with a hefty fee (12%?!) and should only be used in drastic emergencies. Using credit cards (or a line of credit) to pay for cable, cell phones, or groceries (unless you’re trying to get the Visa Extras bonus and intend to pay it back at the end of the month) is not the best way to start rebuilding your credit. My suggestion is to try and reduce spending to encourage the elimination of the overdraft protection instead of relying on it (which is why ING let you go).
That being said, to each their own. The company had every right to let you go, though reading through these articles has definitely made me think twice about opening a savings account through ING. I’ve heard FNBO is the National Bank of Omaha and is offering 6%.
To Dan…
If you owe them $115 on the Overdraft LOC and they send the “dogs” after you, you owe the collection agencies their fees. Meaning what? Meaning that if the collection agency charges ING $100 to get back your $115, you are responsible for it… not them. Thus, your $115 revenge on ING turned into a $215 payout. In addition, they CAN report it to credit agencies even if it is under 30 days. There are 1 – 30 days, 31 – 60 days, 61 – 90 day, etc. Most companies won’t do that (if you’re under 30 days), but they can… and ING certainly sounds like the type of company that WILL.
In addition, if they send you TO collections, you will have that on your credit report for 7 years. Sending even one account to collections has a rather substantial negative effect on your rating/score.
In response to your statement:
I totally disagree:
“In addition, they CAN report it to credit agencies even if it is under 30 days. There are 1 – 30 days, 31 – 60 days, 61 – 90 day, etc. Most companies won’t do that (if you’re under 30 days), but they can…”
They really can’t. When the account is closed, They can report you have a revolving credit line with them, it is maxed out, and full payment immediately due. That can knock down your score somewhat. THEY LEGALLY CAN’T report it unless you are 30 or more days past due.
They probably can report it to Chex systems. Which has nothing to do with credit score, but you can’t get another checking account unless that is paid off.
If they send it to collections. A collection agency (by law) needs to give you a 30 day grace period to dispute or correct the problem before they report it to the credit bureau.
But in short.. I will pay the damn thing off.. :)
I know it is perfectly legal for ING to ask for full payment due immediately. It is their money. As with any creditor they have the right to ask for full payment due immediately at anytime. I personally think this is not ethical.
It is ING’s fault for not checking credit history. Some people have no concept how credit works, how to budget, or how to use it. A simple credit check from the beginning would have weeded out potential risks.
I think it is awful for ING to ask for full payment of OD balance IMMEDIATELY.
For most people who maxed out $1,000 or more. They will be unable to pay it back in 30 days. ING should at least give them a reasonable payment plan. I totally agree.. people who used OD protection should be obgliated to pay them back. But, ING should have been more careful selecting people.
My EO account was closed. But luckily, I did not run an OD balance.
As an ING Customer, I am angry they loaned money to unresponsible people.. AND
I had a couple of credit cards yanked from me in my life. When the Card Company closed the account, my revolving payments stayed the same.
I will pay ING back in small payments. If they can’t accept a small payment they get NOTHING.
I already have three items in collection, and a judgment against me. If ING takes me into collection big deal.
I have no property or garnishable wages. They can wait to receive payment. Living expenses come first.
My linked account to ING has already been closed.Go ahead and try pulling money out of that account.
The same thing happened to me. I never used the overdraft protection and as soon as I saw the email I called them and asked what was up. How could they cancel a debit account? I was not mean, of course, and the very nice rep on the other end confirmed it.
The next day I had the same email about, “So sorry, never mind, you have your Orange Account and overdraft again.”
I have been an ING customer for 4 years and I was disappointed, but I was happy to see they resolved the issue right away. I will stay with them because they have been really fantastic except for the one little instance. I can understand that businesses make mistakes.
Its fine with me if they want to check credit and deny an account but they should do this when you apply and then either open the account or not. Not let you use it for a few months and the all of the sudden close it! This is a terrible situation for someone who has been working hard to fix their credit.
The 30 day notice my account will be closed as came and went. I logged back into my ING Account last night and found out my account is still active and my overdraft line is back.
First time I received the e-mail notice my account will be closed. I contacted ING direct. They told me my account will be closed and they can’t make any exceptions. I did not fit the criteria to have an Electric Orange Checking Account.
When people were receiving e-mails saying. “We made a mistake”.. I contacted ING to see if my account was closed by mistake. ING said there was no mistake on my account. I still did not fit the criteria to have an Electric Orange account. My account will still be closed. ING still can’t make an exception with me.
I also e-mailed customer service and got a response saying my account will be closed and no exceptions can be made for me to keep it.
30 days has passed, I logged into my ING account and my checking account remains open. WITH THE SAME OVERDRAFT PROTECTION PRIVILAGES AS BEFORE. My overdraft protection as been reopened without notice and my account is still open.
I am not thrilled about this. I probably will need to contact ING about closing this account. I already made arrangments and moved to another banking institution. I changed direct deposit, cut my debit card, closed my dozen other ING Savings Accounts.
I contacted ING four times and they confirmed my EO account will be closed after 30 days. If communication and ethics are that bad, how can I trust them to handle my money?
you ran 15k out of your accounts within the last 7 months yet you live in $1000.00 overdraft…something doesnt add up
My OD was $250.00. I never really used it. AND.. I have two three other checking accounts besides ING.
sorry about that..
What I meant to say is between my wife and I we have three other checking accounts. My branch, wife’s account and business.
I had a $250.00 in OD protection NOT a $1,000. I never “LIVED” on it. I didn’t use it.
My wife and I make a 6 figure income. And I had over a dozen small savings accounts. Only thing that is hurting us was credit score. I didn’t keep A LOT of money in ING but it is a little wierd.
Ouch, Simplemind… that sounds like some pretty bad insurance. Just about every reputable insurance company has a cap on the 20% portion that you pay. With most policies, you won’t pay more than $2000 (or close to that) in additon to your deductible. So even if you have a deductible as high as $5000, you would pay $7000 maximum, on a $200,000 bill. Or a $500,000 bill. There are a few crappy insurance companies out there that don’t limit the 20% part, but if you have one of those, you should go shopping for insurance asap.
Listen, this is what ING does:
-If you open an account and use overdraft, or they feel it necessary, they will check your credit to make them feel safe in lending their money to you. If you don’t have good credit, they don’t feel safe giving you overdraft so they close your account.
Why do they close your account? Because they have to give you overdraft, even if you don’t want it. If they have a customer that has overdraft on an account and has bad credit history, they are a liability and can no longer be a member of the bank. Since they cannot simply take away the overdraft, they are forced to close your account.
Believe me, ING wants you to use your overdraft, it makes them more money (more being the chief word here because they get enough from mortgage spreads.
I’m sure you’re going to start seeing more of those letters because banks are trying to cut down on their risky spending in order to minimize the amount they lose during the subprime mortgage mess. I understand what people are saying, I have a 733 credit score and cannot get a credit card for some reason, but anyway this is why they are cancelling people’s accounts. Also, to the people who are using this overdraft protection liberally, this is what got the country into such a mess with these mortgages and you really need to stop doing it. For the love of god just get some better spending habits!!!
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