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Stupid Investment of the Week: Teach Me To Trade

This article was written by in Consumer. 42 comments.


The snow keeps piling up on the ground, and I’m going to have to face the music and dig my car out at some point. In the mean time, Chuck Jaffe presents his stupid investment of the week: The Teach Me To Trade seminar. I like when Chuck takes on these seminars in the “Stupid Investment” articles because we seem to hold the same opinion. A few years ago, a boss “strongly recommended” I attend his favorite “self-improvement” (money-shoveling) seminar called Landmark Education (formerly Forum or est), so I’m very skeptical of these activities.

Based on what the company showed at its free come-on seminar, however, most customers would have had trouble doing well enough with the system to make it worthwhile. For proof, there was the moment when Wilks showed a line pattern; the pattern’s trend was obvious and simple, and yet nearly half of the 60-plus people in attendance couldn’t read the chart right, saying it was time to buy when Wilks was pointing to a sell, and visa versa.

I think people attend these seminars because they want someone to teach them how to accomplish something quickly. In this case, it’s making money from trading stocks. If the attendants were intelligent, they wouldn’t have a problem learning this stuff independently. But Chuck points out an interesting observation — these people probably can’t learn on their own. Unfortunately, what they’re learning in the seminar seems to be above their level of understanding as well — hence the leader’s suggestion those who do not understand attend the more complex seminar.

One common theme among these seminars is they give the attendanta psychological defenses against people like me who believe these seminars are generally worthless. This defense is the classic circular response, “Those who are detractors just don’t get it. You get it, that’s why you’re here.”

Updated December 20, 2011 and originally published February 12, 2006. If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to the RSS feed or receive daily emails. Follow @ConsumerismComm on Twitter and visit our Facebook page for more updates.

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About the author

Luke Landes, also known as Flexo, is the founder of Consumerism Commentary. He has been blogging and writing for the internet since 1995 and has been building online communities since 1991. Find out more about him and follow Luke Landes on Twitter. View all articles by .

{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }

avatar Trainwreck

Two True-isms Come to Mind (tongue in cheek):
1. There’s no such thing as a fast buck.
2. Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.

Quick Atlanta Weather Report: Flurries, but no shoveling! Have Fun! :o)
Best
Trainwreck

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avatar George

The only way to REALLY learn how to invest is to study the long term masters of investing. I’ve picked Warren Buffett to learn from because he has had amazing returns and has shared much of his knowledge through his letters to his shareholders over the years.

The group think of seminars might make you feel good and confident, but it is not likely to teach you the most important aspect of investing, which is to learn to think for yourself.

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avatar Steve Mertz

I encourage investors to go to public seminars-but leave your credit card at home. Generally, you can pick up some nugget or better yet, learn what not to do! By the way Flexo-tomorrow Sport Illustrated realeses your favorite issue here’s a link http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/business/media/13sports.html
:) take care, steve

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avatar Spike

When people ask me about learning to trade well, my first question of them is, “Have you ever seen Star Trek?”…..and then I wonder just how willing they are to declare war on their emotions and change their behavior to trade like a pointy-eared Vulcan.

Ultimately, that is what it takes; the will to drive all negative trade-killing emotion out of the equation and stubbornly trade a great risk/reward plan that you were smart enough to think of before entering the trade.

Trading well and making money isn’t rocket science; it’s just a matter of forming good habits.

All one needs is a) Patience to stalk the trade, b) Good risk/reward planning, c) Ability to enter hard stops and sensible targets, and d) Ability to ignore greed and fear and hope.

Trade like a Vulcan, limit losses, and let profits grow, and you’re on your way!

Make ‘em pretty dudes!
Spike.

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avatar Milton

@ Spike,

I’m not a stupid person, but I don’t know what you mean by “Good risk/reward planning”, “hard stops”, or “sensible targets”.

I’m sure that once you have the ABCs of the trading language, what you said made sense. Unfortunately, I don’t know a single trader, and don’t even know where to start.

I know that the infomercials on investing are bad news, but they look like they might help someone learn the ABCs. If you have a better suggestion, I (and countless others) am listening.

~Milton

p.s. I found this page while doing a search on one of the infomercial programs and am not a regular reader.

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avatar Luke Landes ♦127,480 (Platinum)

THere are definitely better solutions than blowing thousands of dollars on a seminar. If you’re just interested in learning the basics, there are countless books that will teach you what you need to know to get started. Browse your library or book store, read some intros, then check the books on Amazon.com for reviews.

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avatar Spike

@Milton

Hi, and thanks for the reply.

You are quite correct that there is a ‘trading language’ and that one does need to do familiar oneself with it. But Google can be your best friend for researching stuff. It’s where I’ve obtained most of my trading knowledge; that and the experience of poor trading judgment, planning and execution. It is true that experience is the great teacher, and I think as humans we must all experience trading losses before we even seek out concepts of capital protection and good risk reward, let alone let it really sink in. Everyone wants profitable systems, everyone wants to make money in the market, and when they fail on their own they seek out infomercials and “easy money makingâ€Â? systems. But unfortunately in my humble view, the only way to success is with solid discipline, sensible money management, and strict risk control. Any system or infomercial promising the world and seeming too good to be true, probably is too good to be true. It’s a sad fact that marketing hype surrounds much of the trading ‘systems’ out there.

I have come to firmly believe that it’s simple stuff that makes a difference in trading; simply once you know it that is, and tough to adopt since it involves changing behavior and emotional response to unwelcome events in our trading lives. The fact is that failing to apply sensible and mathematically favoring risk reward parameters for a given speculative trade is one of the biggest reason why so many investors are destined to failure. A second is failing to limit a loss. A third is letting our human emotion influence our rational and logical wits that would otherwise protect us from loss or realize reasonable profit.

Since our trade entries and exits (the buy point and the sell point) are the only things we can effectively control when trading, then we should make sure we plan those two things very very well, and execute flawlessly and without silly, stubborn, and very very real pride, hope, greed, and fear get in the way of logic.

When we expose our cash to “the market�, it may immediately disagree with our own trade bias. And then during the normal action of “price discovery� there is born a complicated battle between selling volume and buying interest, that takes place around the “lines in the sand�, known commonly in “trader-talk� as support and resistance. There are the bag-holders, the investors, the dollar-cost-averaging crowd, who will grudgingly hold while price drops away from their entry, content that their plan is either to hope it comes back or average in and throw good money after bad to lower the average price, and thus lower the breakeven point for themselves.

The problem with that is that a stock may very well plunge to unthinkable levels (remember Enron and so many like it since) and tie up cash for an extended period of time purely on hope. Personally, I think that kind of trading and investing is madness. I’d rather limit the downside, and when proven wrong I get out and put the money left into a fresh logical plan with favorable numbers. There’s something very liberating about cutting a loser short too. Yes, it is very tough to take a loss, but when it’s taken the relief can be enormous, especially when you see your stock fall even further, thankfully without you. That kind of price action well proves that your decision to enter was not only poorly timed, but timed against the short-term/long-term trend of price for that issue.

And that brings me back to the importance of the trade plan, the importance of risk/reward. With all that in mind, isn’t it sensible to plan as much for the downside risk as we should plan for a realistic upside target. It’s by making it a practice to set targets that always exceed our risk that we can afford to be wrong several times in a row? At least until we wait for those few truly great trades to come along and reward us for our patience and discipline?

Yes, it’s clear to me that human emotion is the definite obstacle to that kind of planning and execution, because most people greatly dislike admitting they are wrong, and most people greatly dislike losing money, even if it is only 1% or 2% or 4%, or whatever your defined risk is.

So these are the two things one must ‘deal with’ before one exposes one’s self to all too often brutal capital reducing market forces of a trend move against you. Without ‘dealing’ with those two issues, or perhaps being complacent and recklessly ignorant of them, or simply being uninformed about the truth of market forces and what can happen, then one isn’t far away from the slippery slope of red hope that can see you maintain long positions from the top of a bubble until you finally sell for the loss at the bottom of the bear just before the next bull trend.

See, it’s only a matter of time until we all make a trade that starts poorly, and drops off quickly. Diversification is one way to limit the losses, but most people don’t diversify properly. And if I limit my loss to 4% of my capital, and try to target 10-fold what my loss is, then I only need 1 trade out of 10 to be trading break even stats (less commissions of course). And surely I can manage 1 in 10; a 10% strike rate. And if I manage to hit 4 from 10 with those risk/reward numbers then my profit should be nicely greater than my losses, and will carry me through the frustrating periods where my timing is completely off, and propel me forward in the times when the market is rewarding every entry for a time. Now some people will scoff at the chances of effectively trading with risk/reward ratios of 10, but it’s absolutely possible. If you watch my Spike’s Setups Blog for a day or two (http://spikefader.blogspot.com/) you’ll see me post such setups. Yes, those plans are optimistic, yes perfection takes time, yes, often enough my 1% risk stop, or 2% risk stop, or 4% risk stop, is taken out. I don’t mind being shown and proven wrong about an entry. I just don’t like being wrong by much. Likewise, when I’m right about an entry, and I get rewarded, I like to let them run to where I targeted, and give them every opportunity to prove me right about the trend. Regular followers of my calls can attest to the success of my methods, and the real-time posting of the supporting TA charts.

But anyway, this has turned into an enormous post, and I apologize; I sometimes get very focused on these topics. The quick answer to your question on whether I have a better answer is yes, I do. I would suggest you seek out good stock related forums (may I recommend http://www.mrmarketishuge.com and read through the very lengthy thread I have had running for a couple of years at http://www.mrmarketishuge.com/showthread.php?t=428 There is a wealth of information in that thread. Yes, it’s long, but it’s got a lot of good stuff in it. You can also see what the other regulars are up to, what they’re posting about, the charting that is discussed. Or another good place is The Motley Fool boards, like http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?bid=113032&mid=23973515&sort=postdate and posters like Trenchrat, http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=209090 and just quietly lurk and slowly absorb information and learn ‘trade language’, and Google for any terms you’re not familiar with.

I also invite you to regularly visit any and all of my free trading Blogs to see if you value any of the content. There’s something for everyone and if you’d like to see something added, just post a comment and I’ll do it. Visit http://spikefader.blogspot.com/, http://ymfutures.blogspot.com/, http://spikes-creme-of-the-crop.blogspot.com/, http://traderpsychology.blogspot.com/, http://spike-on-bel.blogspot.com/, or http://mygn.blogspot.com/. They all have unique content related to trading, and I dare say you’d be interested to read my personal favorite psychology related Blog Post entitled “The Moment� found here: http://traderpsychology.blogspot.com/2006/03/moment-timing-trade-when-to-strike.html

Feel free to comment or ask questions in any of the comment boxes you see on my Blogs, and I’ll gladly offer my humble opinion.

Best to ya!
Spike.

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avatar Milton

@Spike

Thank you. You have certainly given me some homework! I really appreciate your detailed, if somewhat lengthy :-D, post!

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avatar vin Raj

Spike

Couldn’t agree with you more, most of these seminars sell a rosy picture of a quick rich scenario, where as people has to understand that there is no free lunch one has to pay his dues in order to learn the tricks of the trade.

Vin Raj

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avatar Spike

vin Raj

You are so right. Money drives people to compromise and inflate the truth; all for a fast buck from an ignorant crowd. Very sad. Especially when moms, pops, grandmothers, and grandfathers fall for it and throw good money after bad.

And the truth is that anything worth doing is not easy, and is worth doing properly, investing time and effort, focusing on discipline and patience, and sacrificing time and energy to strive for perfection.

Regards,
Spike
http://spikefader.blogspot.com/

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avatar Paul Maynard

I think you did an excellent job in explaining the direction that must be taken to achieve success in the market.

I know nothing of the market, but I can read.

I’ve yet to come across anyone that has told me any magical secret to success, other than hard work and perserverance.

I appreciate the time and energy it takes to make a post as Spike did.

You either know something about a particular subject and you take the time to explain it to others that want to learn (and ask nothing in return, but a little gratitude) or you can simply beat people out of their money and teach mistrust.

With the proper expenditure of energy I think I can take what Spike said to the bank.

Spike, you made a fairly short post actually, all things considered. I’m not sure I would take the time to pass out free advice, if I were already engaged in a lucrative endeavor.

With a modicum of gratitiude, I say

Thank You Spike,

Paul

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avatar Larry

I have read comments about Teach Me To Trade on this and other sites, some of which form a (viciously) negative, “authoritative” opinion based solely on the mail or TV ads, others on attending the first freebie presentation. I recently went through the 3-day workshop (28-30 April 06). I will state my experiences, then opinions at the end, and you can form your own opinions.

The TV or mail ad gets you to come to a freebie seminar that lasts a couple of hours. At the presentation all kinds of good news is presented on how you can become a successful stock market trader. (No claims are made that you can easily do this overnight.) The presentation is a hard-sell gig for their software (The Trade Center) and 2 books of about 120 pages each. The cost was $199. One of the books covers definitions and jargon and the other covers some technical analyses and trading strategies. You are also automatically signed up to the live feed of stock market information, including historical information. The cost for this service is $40.00 per month, with the first month free. I had no problems whatsoever downloading and installing the software. (Note: the software runs only on MS OS’s like XP, 2000, etc. No Mac or Linux versions that I know of.) If you do not buy into the $200 sell at the presentation then the cost for the above and attending the 3-day workshop is about $2,000.00 direct from the company. They state this explicitly during the freebie presentation.

If you purchase the $199 package at the freebie presentation, this automatically registers you for the 3-day workshop. Each workshop day is about 7 hours in length. This workshop covers much of the material in the 2 books purchased at the first presentation, but in much greater detail, and the ability to interact with the presenter. Also included are live demonstations using the software, entering orders, etc. Of course, a primary focus of the 3-day workshop is to introduce you to and sell their intensive courses for learning this type of trading in far more detail than can be presented in 3 days. The courses can be purchased individually or as a package. In addition, they have some other software that helps find stocks that look like good trading candidates. This software is not for the mindless – you still have to do your own analyses on each stock and decide for yourself to trade in it. There are significant discounts if you buy courses during the workshop, of course, but you do have the option of buying one or more courses after the workshop at higher prices. The average time period they give for completing their program is about 1 year, during which you should have paid back the cost of the courses/course package using the information they give you in at least the first 2 courses. (They usually recommend 4 out of about 7 courses.)

My opinions: All in all the 3-day workshop was no high-pressure sales pitch at all. Telemarketers are more high-pressure than these people. More time was spent on education than selling. The courses/course packages are serious money for me and I did not buy into them. The software that looks for candidate stocks to trade was also a bit pricey so I did not buy into that either. But I certainly felt that I got my $200 worth between the Trade Center software, the 2 books that came with the software and the presentations during the 3-day workshop. Why do I say this? I am well-educated and have to use tools like calculus, statistics, probability, genetics, and computer programming at work. (And, no, I am not a student. Ph.D. from an accredited (= real) university.) I have never paid any attention to stock trading and didn’t know how it worked, always believing the hype that stock market investing ultimately resulted in losing all your money, unless you were lucky. Essentially equivalent to gambling in casinos. The workshop stressed that it is possible to do better than random chance in the stock market by using a system – whether it is their system or not – just use a system that gets your win/loss ratio above 50%. Since I am self-taught in statistics, calculus and computer programming, I came away from the 3-day workshop with enough information to begin at least paper trading and what to look for in other information sources, such as those listed in Spike’s posting above, for parts I did not understand clearly, like using covered calls. One very useful piece of information I came away from the workshop with was how the information was organized for me. This helps to clarify a lot of the misconceptions about trading in the stock market and how to organize my learning about trading.

Is the Teach Me to Trade a scam? No it isn’t. A scam is the approximately $10,000 I have given over the past 3-1/2 years to a financial advisor in an established company that has earned me less interest than a regular bank savings account (IRA, mutual fund). Now THAT is a scam, and those people proudly look me in the eye and smile while they are screwing me over. At least with the Teach Me to Trade 3-day workshop I received far more education about trading in stocks than my financial advisor jackasses seem to even know. The presenter at the 3-day workshop made no claims that the process of becoming a successful trader is quick and easy. They say up front that their process will take about a year. As far as the pricier software and pretty darn expensive courses are concerned, I don’t know if they are scams or not. But as far as the initial $200 investment goes, it has been money well-spent for myself. Lastly, I was able to meet other people at the workshop who already have successful stock trading experience that are willing to help me as I go along.

Larry

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avatar John Robichaud

If you fall for Whitney crap (and I do mean crap) then I feel sorry for you. Greed makes you fall for their BS. I worked for those yuckapucks for three years, I ran those seminars. I know many fall for it which is why if you give them $13,000 up to $25,000 you have just given them your own trading money. What the hell is the matter with you that you would do that?

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avatar Sue

Thank you Larry for your honest, FIRST HAND posting. It is what I have been searching for.

Every place I have looked in the internet has people calling it a scam, but not one of them actually attended it. Larry’s was the only first hand report I have been able to find.

I signed up for the 3 day, $ 199 program. I have no intention of taking addtl classes from them, but am hoping to learn some basics. I think $ 199 for 3 days of classes isn’t so bad;
if it turns out to be more selling than teaching, well, I am out $ 199 but it is not the end of the world. Thanks again Larry – I am looking forward to the classes now with a bit less trepidation than I had been feeling after reading all the SCAM postings.

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avatar Frederick

I’m sure some people will get something out of the seminar whether it’s a scam or not. I can list several points from Larry’s comment above that place the seminar in the “scam” category for me, but it’s subjective. I’m inclined to think most of these types of activities are scams or scam-like.

* “The presentation is a hard-sell gig for their software (The Trade Center) and 2 books of about 120 pages each. The cost was $199.” I’ve sat in on a similar free presentation/hard sell once for a friend who thought she won a free vacation. They don’t force you to buy anything, but if you don’t, it’s a waste of time.

* “You are also automatically signed up to the live feed of stock market information, including historical information. The cost for this service is $40.00 per month.” Automatically signed up for a monthly service with a monthly charge in addition to the $200 fee?

Just because something is a scam doesn’t automatically mean that no one will find it worthwhile. Alternatively, your library has tons of great resources on investing and there are lots of stock screeners online… Problem is, you have to do the work of researching and vetting information.

$200 isn’t that much of a monetary “investment” in the program if you have nothing better to do with your time, though, so go for it.

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avatar bill

frankly i have always thought that trading the stock marker or forex (foreign exchange) was just legalized gambling.

i am not sure why i got interested in trading but i got one of those practice accounts. i failed miserably thus confirming the legalized gambling view, then i took a course from fxcm.com it was actually one segment of the course on the RSI indicator and it was free. from there i went on to make make 20 sucessfull trades in a row. ok Mr. Cocky let’s take the rest of the course before laying any money on the line. the course was about $400 but if u got half way thru it and was not sure about it u could retake it or cancel. i did learn a lot of the basics. and currently have my course status on hold. I was doing better than the instructors and i could not figure out why. i actually picked the bottom of the euro/usd market and should have gone all-in as they saying in texas holdem , but i was in dissagreement with my instuctors so i waited. damn it i missed turning 1000 in to 40k . my instructor wanted to know why i was so succuessfull in my practice trading. i told them that i treated it like my own money and only risked what i would have for real. and i use my “gut”. they said as u prceed thru the course that they would try to get me out of the gut phase. good luck cause after all the analysis it comes down to do u “trust” it completely.

2 things about trading above all esle .

1. patience — if u dont have it dont play it
practice alot

2. start small — that is what i like about the forex . u can start with a lot less money than stocks. and there is quite a bit of movement most trading days which btw is 24/7 except between 500 pm est fri to about 200 pm sun.

also do some checking in the forex broker area cuz different brokers have different spreads on the bid/ask (where the make there money) and make sure they are streaming real time quotes. yes folks there are some that dont. email ur success/horror stories to me at
puss_n_boots_owner@yahoo.com

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avatar Mark Jones

First: Flexo, terrific posting and second: very engaging commentary. Larry described the $200 3 day seminar very well. My experience was very similar. I think the 3 day seminar is quite a reasonable balance between teaching and selling. They teach you enough to prove that there is something to what they’re teaching you. A kind of bare-minimum that made enough sense for me and my father to sign-up for classes. Yes, John Robichaud, I’ve already given a rather substantial amount of money to EduTrades/Wealth Intelligence Academy/Whitney Education group, but rather than feeling sorry for me, allow me to share with you my experience with those “yuckapucks.”

For those of you who are looking for a REAL PERSON with REAL FIRST-HAND experience, I am your inside man. I’ve started a blog (http://taocode.blogspot.com/) specifically and exclusively for giving a detailed account of my experience with TMTT, including detailed, relevant information. If, in fact, what Teach Me To Trade has to offer is complete crap, and I lose all my money, especially the money I’ve paid to EduTrades for my “education”, you’ll know it along with the rest of the world.

I started the blog because, while attending the 3 day seminar, I searched the internet for information on EduTrades/Teach Me To Trade and I couldn’t find any worthwhile first-hand accounts. Yes, I did find some very authoritative, vehement “reviews” of TMTT, however upon further inspection, all the complaints were not from first-hand accounts and were invariably to push their own no-risk get-rich-quick scam. If that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is.

I hope you and others find my blog useful in aiding your decision-making relative to what Teach Me To Trade offers. My blog is located here: http://taocode.blogspot.com/.

Mark
taocode@gmail.com

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avatar Mark Jones

Update: I’m beginning to Paper Trade using what EduTrade’s/TMTT teaches. I’m putting it all to the test and we’ll soon know how effective the system is (at least for me). The URL has also changed, though you’ll still be able to get to it through the previous URL. It is now available at: http://taott.blogspot.com/ (think/remember: The Art Of The Trade).

– Mark

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avatar Tom

I too attended the TMTT seminar and have to agree with Larry. Although I did not buy into the $199 ro $399 package for the 3 day training, I think most of the negative scam comments are off base. They are pressure selling for sure, but the sale is for the 3-day training of “the system” and the disciplined approach (i.e. the Vulcan approach). The software is a key tool to assist in using the system, but the seminar focused more on the educational benefits of the workshop and how to make use of the software. Had I been able to miss work and attend the training I would have easily invested the $199, probably the $399 option.

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avatar darrell farren

MY experience with teach me to trade resulted in spending the $200 and hearing about the seminar lectures friends and family. he was more concerned about making people that had 50,000 available to invest on the tmtt method. people who attended the seminar without their wallet were told to get the money on Friday night at 5:00 pm. good luck!!!!!!!!!!!
the follow up call from the company was like a trade in deja vu. BUY ME BUT DON’T BOTHER ME. what a crock!!!! the company seems like it can train you for short term?market investing but i hit the Barnes and noble and saved some (19,000) in research. i question the motivation of a company that won’t work with an individual. if your target market doesn’t include me leave the Amway like ambiance out of my life. anyone else feel my pain .

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avatar terry

for Larry (May 1st, 2006 17:13)

i’ve considered buying the Trade Center software, but now you mention more software that “helps find stocks that look like good trading candidates”.

i was left with the impression that the Trade Center software ($199.00 for it and the 3 day training session) did that.

further investigation mentions their software called trade seeker. would that be the software?

pls elaborate on these 2 programs.

thanks. terry

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avatar Matt

Here is my first hand experience with TMTT.

I went to the first free seminar based on the infomercial I saw on TV. I believe myself to be a fairly educated person. I have a degree in finance and economic. I wanted to believe in this software and training so I was prime. I thought the product had merit and I wanted further education in trading so I plunked down $399 not just the $199. I did this because I was told I would receive all $399 back as a credit from further courses purchased. What they failed to tell me was that this discount was available only if I purchased the $15990 worth of continuing education at the “professional” level package. This fact was stated in print so small at the bottom of a faded photocopied coupon that I received only after I had paid this fee. The print mind you was so small I needed magnifying reading glasses to discern it. A classic case of the LARGE print givith the small print takeith away. OK already I should be warned a company playing games with small print in an offering. “WARNING” “WARNING” “DANGER” Will Robinson “DANGER.” But I still wanted to believe so I attended the three day seminar.

Day one of the three day training arrives. Its contents is TOTAL SALES PITCH on TMTT and why I can’t let people stomp on my dreams about taking their classes when I leave. The trading education content covered that day could not have amounted to more than one hour of actual factual instructional content. The actual manner in which it was presented also was so disjunct that the notes afterwards are going to be of little value. I was a good student in collage. I have earned two degrees. I know how to take notes. The speaker jumped around so much it seemed almost intentional. The speaker gave you a brief overview of concepts but if you were looking to take away any actual techniques, Forget it. Glimmering generalities dressed up like Christmas is what was presented. God forgive if you should ask an intelligent question as these were summarily dismissed as distracting from the point of making money and of no value to the average student attending.

Day two was better. There was more content less selling of TMTT but still the instructor is all over the map. Jumping forward and backward around topics never really finishing anything before starting a new topic then only to return to his prior point. You can toss the work book they give you as it is not followed THIS METHOD SEEMED ALMOST PURPOSEFUL and carefully orchestrated. These guys are not DUMB. They know how to play an audience giving you just enough to want and need more.

The kicker came on day three when they start to go over covered calls. The important stuff one came to hear about. This is when they then start to call you to the back of the room to hard sell you one at time to buy their training. Training which runs on average over $5000 a pop for three day events. So imagine my frustration when I am now pulled away from hearing some actual content which I paid good money to hear. I am now faced with a salesman hard selling me. He is telling me I need to sign today! as the price will go up if I don’t sign now. Talk about hard sell. He actually got insulting when I questioned why a price would change if I actually took my time to think about it. I bought nothing.

A week later they were back on the phone to me with another hard sell of a “better”, cheeper program for me. One they offer to only a elite few select canadates selected from the attendings.

To conclude: Throughout these programs I was presented with speakers claiming to make HUGE daily profits in the markets. Speakers claiming wealth in the multi millions. Speakers telling me that this system is so good and so easy that all I have to do is be dedicated and believe to succeed. Riddle me this Bat Man. Why if this is so easy is this cast of charters on the road with this dog and pony show, living out of suite cases, in a different city each week as apposed to sitting at home trading and counting their doe ray me? IF you believe them it is because they love to teach and want to give back, and yes, they say that with a straight face. This is my first hand experience after plunking down my $399 with TMTT. Yes, this was one of those “Life enrichment experiences” making one a little wiser for next time. Luckily it only cost me $399. I feel for the those whose noses did not detect the aroma of decaying bio-mass sooner and plunked down more.

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avatar Doug

Those on this site that claim this is a wonderfull program and they learned a vast amount of knowledge to learn to trade in the stock market and make money are so obviously paid to make that claim that it is ridiculous. I am just an average joe that works as an auto mechanic in a small town in Orgeon. I am not by any means of low intelligence. I graduated high school with a 3.8 gpa and went on to college at the University of Colorado to enter the medical program. After purchasing a Saab and doing some work on the car I became quite fasiinated with the complexity of the automoble and decided that working on autos would be much more enjoyable for me than working on people. I have since become a Nationally recognized top technician on Mazda vehicles and placed 4th in a competion that pitten technicions from across the country as well as Canada. Enough about me, I just want to let you know that I am not without education.
I went to the “free” seminar originally advertised on the tv thinking that it would be a great source of addional income. Sounded so easy to at least make a few extra bucks trading stocks at night when I got home from work. The “free” seminar had a lot of information about trading in the stock market or so I thought. Knowing virtually nothing about how the stock market works I thought I was learning some “valuable” inside tips. They showed candelstick charts about how the stock went down and then up in what looked to be predicatable levels and when you should buy and sell and make hundreds if not thousands of dollars in just days. WOW I thought, that looks too easy to be true but since the next 3 day level program was a mere $199 and I could learn even more about how to do this then that does not sound to bad. Signed up for the program and off I went several months later when they were in the Portland area. Program ran by a bunch of 20-30 year olds that walked around in expensive Armani suits and talking like they traded in the millions daily. There was even some banter about how one of them held so much stock in a certain company that I no longer remember that he could corner the market if he so chose to do at any time. End of story, I ended up plucking down almost $8000 that I did not have to spend on my AMEX to get the basic trader package, the advance covered calls package and the trader platform. Just wanted the basic but was told that unless I signed up for the whole package I would not be able to get the trading platfrom that seemed to the the whole point of getting there in the first place. The Trading Platform was the heart of making the trades at the essential time and without it you would be left in the dark. I was taken in with the almost promise of not just an easy buck but money you could make if you took the time to invest at the right time and sell at the right time. Don’t get taken in with the bull. The only peope that win in the stock market are the brokers and makers who run the system. It is a sham. If you want to learn how the stock market works and think you can make big money off of it then go to investorsbusinessdaily and sign up for a few weeks or months at a fraction of the cost. Take the time to read the articles and tips and you will learn 1000000X what you learned in these classes. I did and kick myself in the rear end for not takng the time to do the research first. I took a $8199 hit to my wallet to learn the lesson. Please just do some research first online and you will not be take to the cleaners by this outfit. You can learn everything that they “teach” at the cost of $$$thousands for free on the internet if you will just take a little time to do so.

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avatar Rob

I have taken most of the classes a two years ago and doing great. Takes hard work and patience. Classes are professional and incredibly in depth. On Demand classes (recorded versions of the clsses) really helped out during the process. Most negative reviews are from people who didn’t even try or do anything after the initial class. Like most things in life, the successful people are the ones who work hard and persist. Lost alot of money in the market before getting educated. Wish I would have found them first.

Read Mark’s blog above. Good luck to you Mark!

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avatar Victor

Hi All,

I am so glad I backed out of going to this scam seminar. I went ahead an bought a couple of books on the CANSLIM process of selecting stocks, paid about $10 at Half Price Books and to say the least on my first trade made $450, certainly not a fortune, but seems like the books were a better deal than the $399, I had 7 of my freinds who had originally signed up for this so called free seminar, but they cancelled and so did their freinds. We have now formed a small group and meet twice a month to discuss our ideas and then we make our decisions with technical anaylsis and other available information which by the way is free on the net, try yahoo financial, and even google has a beta financial. So far we have picked 7 out of 10 winners, over the last 6 months and average gain is 39.62% . We are no Harvard MBA’s or any financial experts, just a group of freinds doing their homework and then investing. I think if most folks realized , there is no magic formula, all you have to do folks is learn to analyze past , present performances and factor in the reality factor and then cautiously invest. Be wise folks, dont let these fools take your money, you are better of buying $399 worth of books and financial newspapers ….best of luck

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avatar Rob Hood

I seriously doubt you’ve gone beyond the “come on” seminar, as you called it, or you wouldn’t be writing this company’s trading education program off so easily. You are correct in saying that many of those attending the initial free seminar “don’t get it”. Trading and investing are two different things. But most of those who do “get it” and many of those who don’t, will benefit from the courses this company offers. Granted. They’re expensive. But if you are serious about trading, or even just “investing”, the cost of this education is really just another investment in YOURSELF. As the saying goes, “if you think education is expensive, try ignorance” – especially when it comes to money and the market. Yes, you have to be willing to commit some money towards your education. But these people are serious about, and very good at, teaching you to trade. You not only get an “in-residence” (live) class, but you can also take it online and “on demand”. You can have a mentor, who is a successful trader. And speaking from my personal experience, not only was my mentor knowledgeable, but he actually CARED about my success. I am so tight, I squeak when I walk. So separating me from my money was tough. But it’s one of the greatest investments I’ve made in my life. So don’t be so quick to dismiss this “Teach Me To Trade” company. Some people will never get it. But many will. And those that don’t won’t “not get it” because of any lack of trying by Teach Me To Trade to do just that.

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avatar Jorge Maureira

I was skeptical in the beginning and a lot more surprised after I took the first class for about $1900.00 (two years ago) and the information that I got make me totally confused. There was a lot of new terms and lot of information to assimilate. When the sales came and they call you to the back of the room to sell you more classes, I was convinced not to buy it. I told my son is money I can not afford, I rather to invested it on something else and a bunch of excuses, but I always remember that in 2001 I went to the first free seminar and I knew there was a value on the information they impart, and I did not take it. At this time I wanted to invest a little bit more on our investment education, I had come as far as pay for the first seminar and my 13 years old boy was more exciting than me so I allowed him to convinced me to go to the next level, and I will never regret it because all of the information I got it was mind blowing and eyes opener for us, I just regret not to have done it before.
With the information and the software I have now, a thanks to teach me to trade, I can say that the price I paid for the course was a bargain.
Of course you can learn the information on internet, but in my case it would have take me a lot time and losses, they compiled the information in a way that will make you very happy to learn it there.
The truth is if you have no way to come out with the money to pay for the course it is too bad, because if you invest in the market without the knowledge, you going to learn it the hard way and once you take the course you will regret not to have done it sooner.
Life is short. Knowledge is expensive but it more expensive not to know. Good Luck
By the way nobody had pay me for this statement

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avatar Richi

If you have been scammed in any trade . Plese do visit http://www.scamclub.com to express your grievances.

Thanks
Anna

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avatar Kurt

I’ll have to agree with the posters here. I knew it was a scam before I went to the free seminar but I wanted to see how they run it.

The commercials imply that you will be taught something about trading at the free seminar. That’s not the case. It’s a three-hour seminar which stresses that it will be hard to retire (Social security will be gone, mutual funds drain money, etc…) and that the only way out is education. During the seminar, the speaker actually lets everyone know how stupid they are in money matters (actually talks down to people) and at the end, the speaker pushes the three-day seminar for $199 or $399 depending if you also want the software or not. No questions are allowed during the seminar.

Having an MBA, I can tell you that the start of the seminar started out factual with a discussion of mutual fund fees but quickly turned very biased. The seminar was very much geared to delivering the point that the key to success in the stock market was education and that Teach Me to Trade offered that education.

In fact if it were that simple we would hear about Warren Buffet and Teach Me to Trade graduates as the biggest success stories. There’s a market for a reason and that market is a compilation of everyone’s opinions. If Teach Me to Trade gave any advantage whatsoever, it would be much more profitable for them to use it themselves rather than selling the classes for $399 each.

Bottom line: Stay away.

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avatar Jonathan Powell

I would agree most of the statements on this page. To be honest take the free classes and leave your credit card at home. I went through the three day workshop and paid 2k for it. I also used the software they have for well over a year with no luck. Stock trading and especialy option trading is never easy. I have studied this now for years and still have yet to make a profit on any of it. You might have better luck than I did but its never as easy as they state. I was also able to bring a labtop to the three day event and have more than enough notes. I went through and followed the risk managment steps and found that the charts don’t really make those nice crosses like they state till after the stock has already moved. If you think about the signals they tell you to use are based on averages. So of course after 10 days or so the history it is a perfect signal but thats all it is past history not whats going to happen today. So my point take it all with a grain of salt and study on your own a ton.

Better yet go the public library or go online to study the market after all thats free.

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avatar Jim

I recently attended a 3 day seminar in Tampa. I found the information provided to be insightful and I admit I learned a few strategies there. As with other posts previously I did notice the initial 2 hour “warm-up” had attended a few weeks earlier did promise some things that at the 3 day were not covered. At the start of the 3 day we were also explained that anything not completely understood would be re-covered until full understanding, this also did not happen. I have seen this Mr. Whitney on TV but I did not know of his “rep” so for me it had no bearing on my decision to attend.
The amount of information received was enormous…more than most can imagine remembering or even absorbing. I realized after my second day that yet another day of breezing through the topics and not really dissecting charts and indicators was waiting for me. I decided to skip out on the third day…WHY?
I realized that even if I came in and sat through the third day of information all I would have is at best a blurry vision of my target…more education is apparent. I understood the very knowledgeable instructor but I immediately after the first day knew something was up and approached a “coach” and asked flat out if they were selling education. The gentleman I met was gracious and truthful and confirmed my suspicion. Even still I came back for the second day and did learn a few things I admit.
Why blog?
Here I sit two days later and I do admit what I have heard and learned has made sense and at the end of the day I ask isn’t it a bit unrealistic for one to believe after three days of breakneck information flow they to are ready to enter the stock market. Keep in mind I am not related in any manner to this organization in any way, shape or form so I am completely unbiased.
What I need to know is there anyone out there who has taken the courses that has another opinion. Did they blow through information and not stop to revisit areas of your concerns? They do offer the “on-demand” classes for free for a year now so I figure that will help. At the 3 day I got the old, “we’ll take questions at the end…â€Â? but that really didn’t happen. Did this happen at the courses? Has anyone tried the online courses? What has the experience been like?
All and all I do have interest in this information but will it become a dependency to more and more and more classes and possibly a “rent a friend� situation(mentor program).
I did find the 3 day seminar to be tedious but also insightful. I recognized the sales side early on, even at the 2 hr “warm upâ€Â? but on the education pitch personally felt no high pressure tactics. I was approached at the end of the second session of mind numbing data absorption but the gent that spoke to me was very nice, up front to my questions and straight shooting. My feeling is that one wouldn’t or shouldn’t get into a boxing ring, untrained, and not expect to get hurt. If untrained one could really, really get hurt. How much training does one need to really “learn” how to box? And if training is needed where do you go and how much should it cost?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated

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avatar Sam

Part of hte problem that I am seeing on this trhed / post and comments and on other blogs is people want to oversimplify the matter. It should not be if all infomercials and investing seminars/programs a good or bad it should target more specifically which ones might be useful and which ones tend to be more of a sales pitch. There is obvisouly a wide vareity of quality out there.

I also think that depending on the person and what they are looking for seminars can help. Sure you can read and learn on your own but this is going to cost money in mistakes being made also. It really shouldn’t be an eiter or proposition.

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avatar Mortoma

I went to the TMTT workshop and got the Trade Center Software way back in early 2004, and I can say there is both good and bad about it. You do learn a lot in the 3 day seminar, no doubt. They teach technical analysis very well. Not much about traditional analysis though. They teach the former using their Tradecenter software. All in all, I’d have to say the software is very good and useful. But you need to start small and please don’t use margin on the stock market, at least not much.

During the summer of 2004 I would have made money using what they taught and by using their software, except for some stupid mistakes I made. They didn’t make them, I did.

One time I decided to get out of a trade on a stock with a $700.00 or so profit. So at the end of the day I decided to exit the trade. It was a long trade and I executed the sell to get out with the profit. Little did I realize it was market close and the order did not execute!! I assumed it did and one week later I went into my TD accout only to discover I was still in the trade but had lost about $700.00 dollars instead!!! This was not TMTTs fault but my own lack of mental sharpness.

There’s another example of me losing on a trade for even more money when I could have made $1400.00 or so. Again it was my own fault and not what TMTT taught me. Moral of the story is TMTT does teach you some good stuff but you have to pay attention to what your doing or you will lose your butt.

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avatar gallo06ss

Hello to all , I want to start investing, but im super new at this is there any books that you guys recommend??
I’ll appreciate it
Thank you!.

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avatar Patrick McNoble

I attended the TMTT free seminar and the $2,000, 3-day class. Way to much information to fast. They covered six months worth of information in six hours. I couldn’t begin to absorb or comprehend all the data and I am a reasonably intelligent man. Many of the people in the free seminar and the 3-day class had never traded a stock in their life and many had never used a computer, some barely spoke english. The purpose of the 3-day seminar was to sell $9,000-$53,000 worth of advanced classes. If you bought the entire $53,000 at the class they reduced it to $30,000+. They were showing anyone willing to buy how to borrow the money on credit cards, 2nds on their houses, borrow from friends and relatives and any other way humanely possible to get their money. They had some pretty creative thoughts on how the people could finance the classes. It was abuse of the uneducated and elderly. The people were caught up in the emotion and the thought of making hundresd of thousands of dollars carried them away. I am sure there was a lot of buyers remorse the next day. I felt it was completely inappropriate. All TMTT wanted was as much money as possible. In fairness I didn’t take any of the adavanced classes and maybe these people went on to make millions of dollars? But I have never seen a blog fom anyone who has made money. I think they are to embarassed to admit it, they were taken.
As far asI can tell it requires time and perserverance to learn to make money in the market.
Thanks

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avatar J. Frazier

I also went to the free lesson, and the $200 3 day seminar. I met a lady and we partnered together and signed up for the $28K package.

I have learned enough to make me successful after only the first class.

My problem with TMTT is that they have continued to call us wanting us to sign up for “other” coaching or help at another hefty price tag. Several thousand $.

They are definitely high pressure sales and when we called to cancel one of the other “extra” packages after 10 days, they said that we passed the 3 day limit for cancelling. They told me to write a letter and they’d get back to me.

It’s been over a month and I’ve called several times and left messages, but they will not call me back or email me an answer…even if it’s a definite “NO!”

I’m very upset about the way I’ve been treated after investing so much with them.

I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone, instead, I’d suggest investools or some other company.

It’s apparent that the writer before me hit the nail on the head!

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avatar NorCal Dude

I have a friend at who has done the $199 course & one of the specials from a follow up call. He was on information over- load for three months. He picked it up again, studied and has taken other courses (CBOE, OIC).He’s carefully progressed & is trading successfully trading.
I started with Investools and don’t recommend it. Bought their three day starter (around $1K) and Master’s pkg ($12K discounted to $10K). They compare their courses to a college education, but they aren’t accredited nor are they taught at that level (or K-12 for that matter).
Depending upon instructor and course 35-70% of ‘class’ time is spent on anecdotes of successful trader. Hard sell during lunch & interspersed throughout classes. Some good instructor/salesman and some that should be selling used cars in a bad plaid suit. But most simply followed the book and did a couple of examples. By the way if they still offer personal coaching, DON’T DO IT! A friend told me he could hear is coach thumbing through a book for answers. I asked my coach for advise on how to adapt their system to my circumstance. He just said ‘Gee, that’s a good question. I don’t know.’ No offer to research it, no offer to speak with his collegues.
The books used in these courses are similar those of training consultants (Catapult, Keystone, Kaplan, etc). Their website went thru a revision and may be buggy according to posts on their forum.

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avatar retrobeast

This infocrap all started with the real estate seminars. You know the ones, ran by guys such as Whitney.
Now in the last few years the stock market is the choice scam seminar, TMTT, the Red light Green light one, etc.

If you want to go wast a couple of hours then by all means do. It surely beats sitting in church and being brain washed by some priest.

Read on book and live by it.
Rule #1 by Phil Town. The guy is a Buffet follower and has a nice website that is free.
That is all. Thanks

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avatar Robert R

Check out the Chicago Board of Option Exchange web site. There numerous free on line tutorial and a lot of on-line courses ($50 each). There is no hype, just good sound info. Will you be able to be a successful trader after finishing all there course, most likely not. But it a great start to the basic stuff you need to continue. Nobody is going to try to sell you additional stuff.

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avatar Jason F

I passed my series 7 and was a broker for about 4 months but quit the job since I was told to do things that were unethical in my view as a broker. Passing the series 7 taught me the rules and basics of every instrument but it never taught me how to make money on the market.

About 10 years later and after losing a lot of money on the market trying to be fundamental value stock investor, I went to a Teach Me to Trade’s free seminar after I saw their 30 minute TV infomercial. That was a one night sales seminar that was mainly a guy doing a hard sell for the low cost class with a few charts of detail of stock and options. I decided to pay the $199 for the three day class. The reason was that I talked to two other guys waiting in the lobby before the seminar that had come to repeat that 2nd $199 class again after taken it the year before.

After about a month’s time, I took a three day introduction course at a local hotel. That was two full days of great information and about one day of a hard selling for the next expensive TMTT courses mixed in during the three days. The course was pretty easy since I had passed my series 7 and most people there didn’t understand the stock basics and few had done their required reading assignments before coming to this class. I did learned a lot about technical trading and spotting chart patterns and it was well worth the money showing me stock patterns that helps increases my odds of picking a good investment. It was also the first time in my life I had found someone with good trading knowledge to answering my questions.

I decide to buy their $5K course and was allowed to bring a friend to class that paid me about $1K to go with me to those advanced course. I also received two software trading tools that came with the advanced class fees that I still use every day. Each course came with an on-line class tutorial that took about 12 hours on line study and a teacher assisted on-line class once a week that all prepared me for one of two three day class in a hotel in Orlando (the closes city for me).

Both classes were full 8am to 6pm with short breaks and as hard as any college Economic class I have every taken. In the advanced courses there was zero time wasted trying to sell me more courses for Teach Me to Trade. For me it was well worth the money it cost me, since I took the course serious and the knowledge I gained and the rule set for what not to do on the market has paid for that education many times over.

Since those TMTT classes I buy DVD on Option Spreads and other advanced stock trading strategy like Iron Butterflies teaching DVD’s from Amazon ($20) that are very similar to my TMTT classes. TMTT’s advanced classes are just like any college you get out what effort you put in. But, my overall opinion of TMTT is very positive and I would pay for my daughter to attend if she would ever get serious about investing.

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avatar Ima Sucka

Do not waste your money. Very simple…Look up Teach me to Trade/Edutrades on any business website.
There are NO executives for the company.
There are NO board members for the company.
There is NO financial history for the company. (They made money-some of it was mine)
The only thing that exsists is an address and a telephone number.Sounds a crooked to me and IT IS!!

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avatar Walter Hart

I attended the free seminar I signed up for the three day two hundred dollar lesson and they gave me the software to practice with. I found the three day lesson very informative and even thought I did got to a couple of the more expensive lessons in Salt Lake they were informative but not worth the price I have found that the two hundred dollar three day lesson was all that is necessary if you do not learned to trade with it you will be spending your money and time for entertainment was fun lessons. I did these several years ago and have made a good income with their methods not gotten rich but worthwhile. i use the software and pay the monthly fee it is well worth the price and is all I use.
Walter

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